NEWS CENTER – Swiss sociologist Jean Ziegler, a close friend of Latin American Revolutionary Leader Ernesto Che Guevra and Deputy Chairman of the United Nations (UN) Human Rights Advisory Board, answered the questions of Serkan Demirel from the European Agenda Program broadcast on Medya News Television.
For years, you have been fighting against capitalism and the big industrial organizations that turn its wheels. Again, you draw attention to the hunger in the world. How do you evaluate the way capitalism still rules our world today?
I’ll give you the World Bank figures from last year. Last year, the world’s top 500 transcontinental companies in all sectors of activity such as trade, finance and industry controlled 52.8 percent of the Gross World Product, which represents all the wealth produced in the world for a year. These 500 multinational corporations have amassed an unprecedented power beyond the power of a Pope or a king. These globalized oligarchies hold the world’s financial capital and rule the world beyond any government control, parliament or trade union. They have the power to do many things.
‘A CHILD DIES OF HUNGER EVERY 5 SECONDS IN THIS WORLD’
It is true that monopolized capitalism is highly creative and dynamic in terms of production. However, its operation is guided by a single principle: profit maximization. We need to know that this cannibalistic world order, in which a very small oligarchy wields enormous power, still exists today. The wealth of eight billionaires in the world is greater than that of half of humanity.
This enormous economic and financial power is causing terrible misery and hunger for many people. On this planet ruled by them, a child under the age of ten dies of hunger every five seconds. A child who dies of starvation in this universe is murdered.
‘CAPITALIST SYSTEM SHOULD BE TAKEN DOWN’
So why can’t we afford to change this terrible system?
Because the oligarchy, which owns the globalized financial capital and rules the world, does not act according to normative principles such as the right to food, human rights and international law. Instead, it operates on a single principle of maximizing profits in the shortest possible time. This capitalist system must be overthrown, awareness must be raised on a global level and we must give a chance to life to those who live in the majority of hunger and poverty on this planet. We can do this.
‘I’M SURE THE KURDS WILL HAVE FREE KURDISTAN’
We know that you follow the Kurdish issue and the Middle East closely. When you look at the history and struggle of the Kurdish people, do you believe they can win?
We are talking in 2023, that is, 100 years after the Treaty of Lausanne signed in Palais de Rumin, where the Kurdish people were betrayed. US President Woodrow Wilson, who led the League of Nations intellectually and politically, had the principle of giving each nation a state, autonomy, and self-determination. Thus, in the 1920 Treaty of Sevres, the Kurdish people were given national status and autonomy. But between 1920 and 1923, France and Britain betrayed the Sèvres resolutions, depriving the Kurds of their right to self-determination and nationality. The Kurdish people, the oldest people in the region and having the richest culture, and Kurdistan was divided between 4 states, Iraq, Iran, Syria and Turkey. This was the beginning of the tragedy for the Kurdish people.
I have great admiration for the Kurdish people. Despite the betrayal of the Westerners, the oppression they have been subjected to, the deaths, injuries and imprisonments, the Kurdish people have resisted and managed to preserve their identity, culture, language and social movements such as the PKK.
Moreover, the Kurds waged an extraordinary war against jihadist barbarism. Thousands of Kurds were martyred while fighting against jihadist barbarians for the West, democracy and us.
I am confident that the Kurds will eventually triumph and have a free Kurdistan. This is a certainty.
‘PKK IS A NATIONAL LIBERATION MOVEMENT OF BRAVE FIGHTERS’
How do you define and see the PKK and its struggle?
The PKK is a national liberation movement. It is a national liberation movement, just like the French resistance to the Nazi occupation. The PKK is a liberation movement made up of extraordinarily brave fighters, especially women. For example, a democratic society in which men and women have equal rights has been created in Rojava thanks to Kurdish fighters. This is an exceptional and exemplary situation for the whole world. Rojava represents a democratic, free and equal society and is a model for the world.
Again, the imprisonment of Abdullah Öcalan and the severing of his ties with the PKK is a scandal. Turkey’s repression against the Kurdish people is an absolute crime. Türkiye did not just kill heroic PKK fighters. Large numbers of non-combatant men, women and children living in Kurdistan regions were killed and tortured. And this situation continues with the support of the west. Türkiye is a NATO member.
Instead of forcing Erdogan to recognize the Kurds’ right to self-determination, freedom of cultural identity and democratic rights, the West is supporting him. Every incoming government implements more violent, more cruel and more stupid policies against the Kurds. And the West continues to remain silent on this situation.
‘WEST IS PARTNER IN TURKEY’S WAR AGAINST THE Kurds’
As you said, the Kurds also waged a war against ISIS in Syria to protect the democratic values of the West and defeated ISIS militarily. But the Western powers left the Kurds alone after the war against ISIS. How do you evaluate this situation?
This is another betrayal of the West against the Kurds. The Kurds also fought an incredible fight against the jihadists for the freedom of the West and lost their lives in this war. They fought bravely against barbarism. However, after the war, the West cynically abandoned the Kurds to their fate.
The Kurds still hold them in prison today to prevent jihadists from returning to the West. The Kurds continue to play a crucial role in protecting democracy and the West from jihadism. Despite this, the West betrayed the Kurds once again.
The Americans withdrew a large force from the region. The West is also indirectly attacking the Kurds, allowing Erdogan to attack liberated Kurdish lands and Rojava. The West allowed Turkey to attack the region. For this reason, your journalism work here is very important in helping to raise awareness in the West. It is important that we understand what we, as Westerners, should understand about the Kurds and what they want from us.
‘THE KURDISH PEOPLE’S STRUGGLE IS AN EXAMPLE FOR ALL OPPRESSED PEOPLE OF THE WORLD’
As we know, the Turkish state uses banned chemical weapons in Southern Kurdistan. It carries out attacks against civilians in Rojava and other regions. Despite all this, how do you interpret the silence of the international community, especially the United Nations?
This attitude of the international community is unacceptable. This attitude is an indication of the cynical policy of the West, which covers up and ignores even Turkey’s most proven and obvious crimes. The use of chemical weapons and attacks on civilians are crimes against humanity. Saddam Hussein used the first chemical weapon against the Kurds in Northern Iraq. Later, in Syria, Bashar Assad used chemical weapons. President Obama and France did not say anything about Assad’s use of these weapons, even though he said it was our red line.
The thing that upsets me the most is the loneliness of the Kurds. This is a scandal. Even if the Kurds are always left alone, betrayed or abandoned, on the other hand, there is always a great strength of resistance, mobilization and revolutionary passion in the Kurdish people. I repeat, the struggle of the Kurdish people is truly an example for all humanity and all the oppressed rights of the world.
‘IF CHE LIFE, HE WOULD KEEP IT SIDE WITH THE KURDS’
In an interview I had with you about two years ago, you said to me about your fighting friend Che Guevara, “If he had lived today, he would have fought alongside the Kurds.” Do you still think the same?
Definitely! What CHE Guevara has embodied so far is solidarity between peoples, internationalism in the literal sense of the word. And the Kurds show us this practically. The Kurds are the carriers of the internationalist struggle of the CHE today.
And if CHE Guevara were alive today, his heart would beat with the Kurds and stand by them. Kurdish resistance is a source of inspiration for the most disadvantaged.
‘INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY SHOULD RISE AND DEMAND ABDULLAH ÖCALAN’S LIBERTY’
Kurdish People’s Leader Abdullah Öcalan has been held hostage for 24 years and has been unable to communicate with him for 27 months. His right to meet with his family and lawyers has been completely taken away. How about that?
These practices against Abdullah Öcalan are a crime against humanity, this is the truth. Erdogan should have been brought before the International Criminal Court (ICC) and sentenced a long time ago. Abdullah Öcalan is the legitimate leader of the Kurdish resistance and the Kurdish people. Imprisoning him and depriving him of fundamental rights such as freedom of movement is a crime against humanity. All this must be stopped. The international community should stand up and demand the release of Abdullah Öcalan and recognize his constitutionalism as the sole leader not only of the PKK but of the Kurdish people as well.
‘ERDOĞAN REGIME IS A TYRACY REGIME’
How do you evaluate the Erdogan regime?
The Erdogan regime is definitely an imperialist regime. The Erdogan regime is a tyrannical regime that restricts all human rights, hates democracy and is a regime of violence.
WHO IS JEAN ZIEGLER?
Jean Ziegler was born in 1934 as Hans Ziegler. A politician, anti-globalization and sociologist. He served as a special rapporteur at the UN on the right to food in the world. As a special rapporteur, he examined the nutritional status of many countries (Niger, Ethiopia, India, Bangladesh, Mongolia, Brazil, Palestine, Bolivia, Cuba, Guatemala, etc.) and presented reports on the situation to the United Nations General Assembly. Ziegler has been the Vice Chairman of the United Nations (UN) Human Rights Advisory Board since 2009.
Considered one of Switzerland’s most important intellectuals, Ziegler’s books have been translated into dozens of languages. But he has huge debts due to lawsuits filed against his books. Despite his advancing age, he still considers himself a revolutionary.
Riadh Sidaoui’s 2003 book “Jean Ziegler parle aux Arabes” (Jean Ziegler speaking to Arabs) describes Ziegler’s encounter with Che Guevara during his 1964 visit to Geneva. Ziegler chauffeured Che for a while in Geneva. One day before Che’s departure, he gathered his courage and said, “Commander, I want to go with you.” Turning to Ziegler, Che pointed to the illuminated buildings in the center of Geneva and said: “Here is the brain of the beast. This is where you have to fight.”
