NEWS CENTER – There has always been a direct or indirect relationship between the Kurdish Freedom Movement and the Turkish state and AKP government for 11 years from 2005 to 2015; Reminding that the relationship between the PKK and the AKP continued at various levels during these periods, PKK Executive Committee Member Murat Karayılan said, “Whenever Leader Apo and the Kurdish Freedom Movement insisted on democratization of Turkey, they approached this issue as a principle, they would not favor the dictatorship system. they understood; This time, they saw fit for their interests and main purposes to overthrow the Dolmabahçe Table, which had reached a certain result at that time, and to completely turn around and move to the MHP line. Afterwards, they determined all their strategies according to the opposition of Kurds and democracy.”
PKK Executive Committee Member Murat Karayılan answered ANF’s questions.
There is little time left for the 14 May elections, which are described as the ‘choice of fate’ by many. Can you briefly remind us of the AKP regime’s approach to the Kurdish people since the last general elections?
The policies implemented by the AKP regime since the last election are mainly based on the ‘Plan of Collapse’ in 2014. In other words, they have been carrying out the same policy since the summer of 2015, as a de facto result of a concept they had planned at that time. Therefore, the AKP, MHP and Ergenekon coalition mainly planned to perpetuate its regime and maintain its power on the basis of making the Collapse Plan successful against the Kurdish people. With the Collapse Plan, it aimed to leave the Kurdish people without a leader, to dissolve their institutions, to destroy all their gains and to prevent them from becoming a political will by rendering them weak. For this, it has resorted to all kinds of methods for 8 years, especially in Imrali, in rural areas and in the political-social field. In short, the AKP-MHP-Ergenekon regime is to intimidate our people, He did everything he could to surrender and break his will. For this reason, he disregarded the rules of law and human rights and trampled on them. He always implemented a state of emergency in Kurdistan. During these last 8 years, normal conditions have never been experienced in Kurdistan. Conditions of constant warfare were imposed and an undeclared martial law was imposed.
Of course, in order to support these practices, they exaggerated the issue and said, “Turkey has a survival problem,” and on this basis they openly declared a total war against the Kurdish people and their democratic organizations and all their structures. While doing this, they did not comply with national and international laws, they committed a crime. Their aim was to break the will of the Kurdish people, to take them over, to break their hope for the future and to destroy all their gains. On this basis, they wanted to implement a new policy of genocidal, refined, and to permanently establish a kind of fascist dictatorship model in Turkey, which is essentially a one-man regime, which they call the ‘Turkish Type Presidential System’.
Did they succeed?
Despite all these efforts, the contributions of various foreign powers, especially the NATO Gladio, and the support of the Kurdish collaborationist line, they could not succeed. If they had succeeded in liquidating the Freedom Movement and the guerrilla, they had planned to increase the psychological torture dosage on Leader Apo in Imrali, to intimidate the society and take it over. Their failure in the face of the guerrilla led to failure in all other areas as well. The resistance of the guerrilla gave strength, spirit and provided an important basis to the democratic dynamics in all Kurds and Turkey. On this basis, there was a great process of resistance along the Leader’s line. A process that we can call ‘total resistance to total war’ has developed. Undoubtedly, the price was paid, it was not easy, but the enemy of the peoples managed to disrupt this genocidal fascist plan and get results.
On the other hand, when they listen to AKP executives, they say that they are successful too…
Of course, AKP also says that it is successful, but this is not true. They wanted to completely liquidate the guerrilla; again, it aimed to eliminate all the existing gains. For the last two years, they wanted to seize the Zap and liquidate the guerrilla there. For this, they started a very intense technological war. They even used prohibited weapons. They received support from the Kurdish collaborative forces in Bashur, but they could not drive the guerrilla out of there and gain dominance. The most important area in Zap and the strategic place that completely dominates the Zap Valley is Girê Cûdî (Cudi Hill) and its surroundings. Girê Cûdî is the heart of Zap. However, Sh. Cekdar, S. Yunus, S. Girê Amediyê, Ş. Pirdogan, Girê Bahar, etc. they did not get places; They tried hard to get it, but in the end they had to retreat. Otherwise they would have lost more. Those who cannot master these places cannot say “I got results in Zap”. Moreover, in the same area, there are many different resistance points that cannot be lowered, as seen in the Sîda and Çemço lines.
Also, based on our new-era tactical approach to the number of guerrillas in Northern Kurdistan, Süleyman Soylu is making up success stories for himself and deceiving the Turkish society. However, we have an appropriate political-tactical approach that corresponds to the process. Again, they are reflecting as if there is no solution against the UAVs / SİHAs that they trust so much. This is not true either. Our tactical measures have shown that a certain level of results has been achieved against them. It is clear that developing the right course of action in this regard will lead to stronger results.
In fact, since they could not break this resistance, they could never break the resistance power and will of the Kurdish society and make them take a step back. Again, they cannot win against the Turkish left-democracy forces. Especially the left-democratic forces marching together with the Kurdistan Freedom Movement showed great resistance and willpower in this period.
At this point, it is seen that the AKP-MHP government still insists on the Collapse Plan. In this context, is it possible to consider the political genocide operation, which was carried out 19 days before the election, as a part of the same concept?
Yes. The AKP-MHP government still insists on the Collapse Plan. He wants to go to the result with him, to win the elections. As part of this concept, their latest move is the detention of around 150 people from patriotic-democratic circles with the political genocide you mentioned. With this attack, the AKP-MHP government wants to break the political-legal struggle, cultural depth and propaganda power of the Kurdish people. Journalists, politicians, artists, lawyers were targeted. We can state that there is an orientation towards segments of society that may have reflex pores. Therefore, this attack is an attack aimed at breaking the power and influence of the people of Kurdistan.
Judging by the timing, was this attack a surprise?
Of course, this is not a surprise. In fact, it is an expected attack, because they have different calculations in the context of going to the elections with an atmosphere of tension. In fact, there was the possibility of attacking Rojava, the guerrilla and other areas, but despite all his efforts, he could not create the political ground he wanted for Rojava. He knows that he will not get the result that he will turn into political propaganda in guerrilla areas. All that was left were the unarmed-defenseless groups that were under their control and based on the legal framework in Turkey. If they had the power, they would have tended to turn to Rojava and again to put the Medya Defense Zones in front of them completely, but apparently they could not bring power to them, so they targeted the civilians at their disposal, those who carry out legal politics, and those who express the Kurdish people at one level or another.
It is very clear that; this is an intervention in the 14 May elections. He will decide whether to continue such attacks based on the consequences of this. Yes, he is afraid of the election; true, but on the other hand, he aims to create a climate of fear, thereby weakening the Labor and Freedom Alliance, the Green Left Party’s electoral work. By weakening the Labor and Freedom Alliance, and again the Kurdish Freedom and Democracy Alliance, it aims to push back all the opposition in Turkey and thus pave the way for re-elections. Or do they arrest journalists, lawyers, politicians, non-governmental organizations, people who make theaters, who are out of the blue and are in the spotlight every day? And with two weeks left until the elections!
What do you think about the opposition’s attitude towards this attack in Turkey?
Unfortunately, the general opposition in Turkey, that is, the opposition within the system, cannot adequately understand the AKP-MHP’s orientation and at least until now has not taken the necessary stance.
Can the current government get results with these security-friendly methods?
Regardless, now with such violent methods; in other words, the chances of them getting results with arrest, torture, intimidation and killing are very slim. They haven’t stopped using violence anyway. They always attack various places, especially Zap. They openly advertise, ‘I shot here, I shot here’. Again with the support of Russia, they are trying to include them in this concept by making alliances with states such as Syria and Iran.
What is the purpose of the AKP-MHP’s persistent desire to ally with Syria and Iran, can they be successful?
At least they want to achieve tangible success before the elections. For example; At least, they aimed to take the Til Rifet (Shehba) area, which is in the hands of the Kurds, and the Manbij area from the hands of the Syrian Democratic Forces. They were planning to do this with Syria. In other words, it is in an eagerness and effort to strike a blow against the Kurds. By doing such a thing on the pre-election day, he will supposedly convert this result to votes. This is his calculation, but it seems that he could not get the desired result in the four-way meeting. With this attitude, the Turkish state is trying to make a fool of Syria. The AKP government and the Emirate of Qatar are primarily responsible for the destruction of Syria at this level. They are the power behind all Syria’s destructive opposition. Moreover, he has occupied Syrian lands, and on top of that, he says, ‘Come, let’s attack the Kurds together’.
As I have just mentioned; After this time, it is not possible for them to get results with the violence method. The basic resistance dynamics of the cause of freedom and democracy are still standing. Today, our people, the forces of democracy in Turkey, have demonstrated a will based on these basic resistance dynamics. It is very difficult for them to take a step back from this now. In other words, our people and other forces of freedom and democracy gained some experience; Large masses in Turkey gained the experience of getting to know the AKP-MHP reality by living it. For 8 years, they have driven the country to starvation despite all Turkey’s wealth by saying ‘homeland-nation-Sakarya’. Today, people cannot find even the minimum basic food they need to survive in their homes. They spent everything on the war. They destroyed Turkey. So no matter what they do, they can no longer get results.
What should patriotic and democratic circles do against these developing attacks?
First of all, I think that the society of Kurdistan and Turkey will not hold back against such attacks and will turn to more struggle. Of course, there are things that need to be done in practice. For example, revolutionaries, patriots, democrats in Kurdistan should immediately replace these valuable people who were arrested. No spaces should be left; work should not be weakened. Ultimately, the system detained these people in order to weaken the work, make it weak, and gradually regress. These tendencies should then be responded to by further strengthening the work. Yes, as seen yesterday in Amed, our people showed a very serious reflex; Despite all the obstacles of the police, a stance was taken in many different places. If it is stated that the aim in the first place is to prevent the election work, then what needs to be done,
For example, they are most afraid of free press workers, because free press workers in Kurdistan, journalists reveal the truths they want to hide. They are also very afraid of the truth being revealed. That’s why they put the journalists first in the orientation. As it is known, a large number of young, dynamic and talented revolutionary Kurdish journalists were jailed in two separate operations before. Now, I think again, there are about 10 journalists among those detained; Again, there are lawyers, politicians, people from non-governmental organizations. They need to be replaced.
Today’s technical possibilities pave the way for each of our people to become a journalist. So much so that anyone with a phone can be a reporter; Anyone who is literate can write news and deliver it to newsrooms. In short, it is necessary not to make the emptiness feel, so that the revolutionary-patriotic-democratic work and struggle should be further strengthened.
Of course, more attacks of this kind may develop. The important thing here is to be able to face all of them with great determination. The people of Kurdistan and the democratic circles that are friends of our people are an important social force. As long as this social force is organized in solidarity within itself, no one can hold it back. Therefore, our people should respond by doubling the work. If such an answer is given, all their efforts will be rendered inconclusive.
After entering the election process, your Movement became the most important propaganda subject of the AKP-MHP front, so to speak. To whom and what circle they want to turn, they put forward your Movement; that they are in a relationship with you, etc. It seems that they are trying to create a reaction by What do you think about this?
The AKP is now trying to portray us, the PKK, as a bogeyman. ‘Woe to whoever hooked up or said hello!’ brings it to say. Other friends from our administration also talked about this issue. They said, “The AKP itself is the one who has the most relations with the PKK.” This is an accurate determination. AKP is like a merchant. It is a very pragmatic structure. They have always aimed to benefit from those relations by being in contact with us before. However, when they realized that Leader Apo and the Freedom Movement insisted on democratization of Turkey, they approached this issue with principles, and that they would not favor the dictatorship system; This time, they saw fit for their interests and main purposes to overthrow the Dolmabahçe Table, which had reached a certain result at that time, and to completely turn around and move to the MHP line.
When did this relationship begin, what stages did it go through and how did it progress?
In fact, for 11 years, from 2005 to 2015, there was always a relationship situation, either directly or indirectly. It is not wrong to say that the PKK and the AKP had relations at various levels during these periods.
He stated that he initially wanted to be an intermediary for an international organization in 2005. We agreed, because we really want to solve the Kurdish problem through dialogue. The efforts of our Leader in this regard for many years are known by everyone. If there is a light on the solution of this problem through democratic-political means, we will not hesitate. That’s why we evaluated this proposal sent to us and paved the way for the dialogue process for a democratic solution.
This international group has been shuttled between us for a long time, bringing and bringing messages. Most recently, delegations met face to face in Belgium and a meeting was held. Then, periodically from September 2008 to April 2011, meetings were held between the official delegation of the Republic of Turkey and the PKK delegation. I don’t remember the exact number now, but there are records; several times a year our delegation was officially taken from Hewlêr to Oslo; a part of our delegation was also going to Oslo from Belgium; The Turkish delegation was also coming there and the negotiations were held in that way. Our delegation was reporting the summary of each meeting in letters and giving it to the Turkish delegation; they were taking it and delivering it to Leader Apo in Imrali. In short, there was a relationship process in this way aimed at solving the problem, and this With the solution of the problem, it was a positive thing for the future and welfare of the Kurdish people and the whole of Turkey. If it were successful, the peoples of Türkiye would not have experienced any of today’s problems.
As a result of the negotiations, a common agreement was reached in the spring of 2011. The joint agreement agreed upon by the delegations was presented to the AKP government by the Turkish delegation. There was no answer after that, and it remained ambiguous. Afterwards, AKP executives started the war process by talking about Sri Lanka’s Tamil tactics.
Then, as of the end of 2012, a new process was started by meeting with our Leader in İmralı again.
Meanwhile, in 2010, there were some blockages. The Ankara administration commissioned Mr. Celal Talabani to overcome the blockage. We also had conversations with him. Upon the proposal of the Turkish delegation to the late Celal Talabani, he sent the intellectual and politician Mehmet Emin Pêncewînî, who was also known in Süleymaniye, to Ankara to represent him. As a result, with the PUK there, ‘the solution of the problem does not proceed with the discussion-dialogue in Oslo; most accurately, they decided to establish a direct line between Ankara and Kandil. This was the joint decision of the PUK and AKP government. PUK conveyed this to us, but we did not accept it.
Why did not you accept?
Because apparently the blockage of Oslo talks was shown and a further stage was pointed out as a solution to the problem with the dialogue to be carried out between Kandil and Ankara, but the main target was İmralı and there was a secret tactic to keep Leader Apo out. They said, ‘Why should foreigners intercede for us? let us discuss and solve our own problem; They were saying, ‘May Celal help in this matter’. This seemed like a reasonable approach, but this plan also included excluding Imrali. Therefore, we did not come to this tactic; We refused for this. We even sent a private message so that the PUK would not misunderstand, and we held talks explaining the issue. Afterwards, a cooling process started between the PUK and Turkey.
Before this process, Hakan Fidan told me that he wanted to come to Kandil and meet with me in order to eliminate the blockage. I was the Chairman of the KCK Executive Council at that time. PUK also said, “We will come to Qandil with a delegation from our administration; Hakan Fidan wants to talk to you directly, that is good, it would be good to meet you to solve the problem,” he made very insistent suggestions to us. We did not accept that either. I said, “Imrali is closer to Ankara; let him meet there; Why is he going to come and interview me?” I said, and on this basis, we rejected that meeting offer.
As of the last quarter of 2012, there was a significant publicly held meeting with Imrali. Here, the HDP delegation played the role of intermediary. HDP was both an actor of the solution and played a role as an intermediary. They often came to Kandil with the knowledge of the Republic of Turkey and shared the results of the meeting with us. They also took our views and expressed them in the meetings. We sent the letters openly. These letters were given to the state, and after the state read and studied them, they gave them to Leader Apo in İmralı. These were all legal stuff that was carried out. In fact, at that time, the Assembly passed a law so that those who carried out this work should not be prosecuted, but it was later understood that they enacted that law only for themselves.
The important thing here is to see that; The AKP’s concern is not to solve the Kurdish problem, which is a fundamental problem of Turkey, but to pursue its own interests. It is acting according to its own calculations. Leader Apo sincerely tried to solve the problem; so are we, but AKP was not sincere and did not solve the problem.
AKP is now turning this into a criminal phenomenon for others…
After all, the Kurds are a reality of Turkey. There is also the Kurdish problem and this is a fact. The PKK, on the other hand, is a force that set out to solve this problem. The most reasonable force to be negotiated with in order to solve the Kurdish problem, which is Turkey’s most fundamental problem, is of course the PKK and its leader, Comrade Abdullah Öcalan. Moreover, Leader Apo has become an unwavering will in the hearts of the people of Kurdistan. What’s wrong with a meeting to solve a problem, what can be blamed for now that AKP is turning it into a criminal phenomenon! However, he himself opened this door; He initiated this conversation. It is shameless for him to accuse different groups of people that you are in a relationship, even though there is no one who is seeing each other now and is in a relationship.
Do you have such a meeting with the opposition?
There is no such meeting. The AKP-MHP-Ergenekon alliance has already created such a pressure and pressure that the opposition or other forces are afraid to even talk about this problem. Some of them do not think much different from the government when it comes to the Kurds. We have seen; For example, let’s say the alliance called 6 Tables argued for a year and they state that they have prepared nearly a thousand pages of documents. There is not even a word of Kurdish in them, there is no such thing as the Kurdish problem. From where? Because of this frightening and terrifying atmosphere created. With a rather fascistic, racist hysteria, it is as if the apocalypse will break out when Kurdish representatives are spoken to! Let’s put the PKK aside; They even treat meeting with the HDP as something that would be strange. Whereas HDP is Turkey’s third largest party, but it is based on the Kurds. because it claims to represent the Kurdish cause and has a program to bring democracy to Turkey. That’s why she’s aiming for him too. He already sees it as an obstacle. Due to the attitude taken by the HDP in 2015, they actually put so much pressure on the HDP, they target it and put it on the same level as us, the PKK. However, there is no such thing; HDP is a political party that fights on legal grounds. However, due to the HDP’s stance, they consider them PKK members just like Rojava. However, to regard Rojava as the PKK exactly is to turn a reality upside down. HDP is a political party that fights on legal grounds. However, due to the HDP’s stance, they consider them PKK members just like Rojava.
You mentioned the HDP’s attitude in 2015. What was this attitude?
Now it is useful to explain a fact here; Tayyip Erdogan is actually a very individual and reactionary person. It is essentially vengeful. If recalled, HDP Co-Chairman unusually concluded the weekly Assembly Group Meeting by repeating only one sentence three times. It was the phrase ‘we will not make you president’. This attitude is the main reason why Tayyip Erdoğan reacted so strongly to Selahattin Demirtaş and HDP.
I can even give different information on this subject; For example, according to some of the reports we received later, there is the same incident behind the attitude towards Osman Kavala.
What connection does Osman Kavala have with this issue?
I know that the AKP regime and Erdogan evaluate it as follows; The idea of making such a parliamentary speech belongs mainly to Osman Kavala. In other words, he suggested to Selahattin Demirtaş to do so; Selahattin Demirtaş accepted this and went and held the well-known meeting in the Assembly. This is why Tayyip Erdoğan had both Selahattin Demirtaş and Osman Kavala imprisoned. For Tayyip Erdoğan, this is the real crime of these two people. ‘We will not make you president’ is to have an idea and to express this idea in the Parliament by finding it true. All the other things that are claimed and shown as crimes in the courts, both for Osman Kavala and Selahattin Demirtaş, are bogus and nonsense. None of them are true. The correct one is what I stated. If attention has been paid, Tayyip Erdoğan has often been personally involved in the lawsuits of these two valuable figures. ‘They will not be released’, ‘their crimes are serious’, etc. There have been statements. Because they are under arrest mainly for the reason I mentioned. This is a striking example of how Tayyip Erdoğan recklessly uses the judiciary in his own service and instrumentalizes it.
You just stated that Rojava cannot be considered a PKK. If Rojava is not the PKK, why did the Turkish state take a stand against the Rojava forces?
In fact, we can say that; the state feared the Rojava Revolution. That’s why they wanted to establish a relationship and take control first. They invited Salih Muslim to Ankara; I think they had a couple of meetings. Then they saw that they would not be able to control it, their fears increased even more. Their main calculation was: Rojava is the smallest part of Kurdistan; It has a population of 3 million. If the Kurds gain a status in Syria, for example, if autonomy is achieved, the Kurds have already gained the status of a federation in Iraq; a situation of empathy such as ‘why shouldn’t the North get 25 million’; Based on this, he was afraid that the Kurds in the North would also insist on autonomy, perhaps even to a more dangerous level. In this respect, We can say that ‘he exaggerated the problem and evaluated it as a survival issue and switched to a counter-position’. In this regard, they tried to equate the Rojava Revolution with the PKK, based on the idea that ‘the PKK is on the terrorist list of the USA and the EU anyway’.
North-East Syria currently has a population of around 5 million. It’s like a country. There is not an organization, but an autonomous administration. It may be close to Leader Apo’s line, but counting the PKK is not correct. They did so because this approach was at their expense.
They do the same to legal institutions in Turkey. They also do it to Rojhilat. They think they can target more easily this way. Therefore, the main target with such discourses and orientations is Kurdish gains. What they fear is the status of the people of Rojava. They were afraid of it. Thinking that this would set an example and that the Kurds in the North would certainly demand such a right and that it should be prevented, they said, ‘They will divide our country and establish a state of terror’.
That’s why they are trying to make the PKK and Rojava the same. Yes, it can be related; but they are not the same things. First of all, if the subject is Leader Apo’s movement, the rhetoric that ‘the state will be established’ cannot be true. Therefore, such discourses are scenarios created entirely on the table. Because Leader Apo’s system of thought is against the state. Our Movement, which acts according to Leader Apo’s thought system, does not have a plan or goal of establishing a state. We aim for autonomy status. In other words, on the basis of the perspective of democratic confederalism that emphasizes local governments, not the state, we advocate a system in which peoples live their own uniqueness and turn to voluntary unity with the democratic autonomy system.
Therefore, you have no intention of dividing Turkey…
Certainly. We do not divide Turkey; We want to transform Turkey, to democratize Turkey, to establish a voluntary union of Kurds within the democratic republic system with the autonomy system. In other words, we do not want to divide Turkey, but to build and consolidate the voluntary unity of the peoples in Turkey. We want to transform the current unit, which is desired to be provided with weapons, tanks, artillery, and planes, into a voluntary unit. To this end, we defend justice, rights, law and the freedom of everyone to live with their own uniqueness. In fact, this is what we call democratic autonomy; that is, the equal-free union of peoples. This is our goal. In this respect, AKP, MHP, etc. The concept of separatism that some Turkish officials ascribe to our Movement is a distortion and is not correct. We are talking about an ideological-political line that actually wants to ensure voluntary unity. Mainly, the danger of separatism for Turkey does not come from us, but from the extreme Turkist mentality that formalizes racism under the name of nationalism, excludes and marginalizes it. In fact, those who carry this mentality are divisive. The truth and truth of the matter is this.
Another rhetoric used by the AKP against your struggle is that you are waging this war with the support of foreign powers. What do you think about such statements?
Sovereign states have always sought an outside finger behind the just causes and just demands of the Kurdish people throughout history. For example, now Iran says that there are outside forces behind the groups that took to the streets for women’s rights with the slogan ‘Jin jiyan azadi’. The Turkish state, which has been in great poverty since the Shex Seîd period; politics, diplomacy, etc. By linking the rightful demands of the Kurdish people, who were left in the background, with foreign powers, they crushed them with massacres. In this sense, they saw no harm in making any kind of ascription to justify their brutal attacks. The same is true now.
A fundamental truth in this matter is the fact that foreign powers are behind the Turkish state. The Turkish state has always received political and military support from NATO in its war against our Movement. He is getting it now. If NATO did not have such political and military support, the Turkish state could not have prolonged this war this long and resorted to other solutions. In other words, that support of NATO is not in the best interests of the peoples of Türkiye. Because it creates a position that supports and encourages war. The support of NATO or other powers is encouraging to continue this war. Therefore, this war that has lasted so long is not a war of the peoples, but a war of those who support the violent policy of the Turkish state, and this war continues because they see the war in line with their imperial interests. Racist within the state in Turkey,
Today, everyone knows that Iraqi airspace is under US control. It is also known that part of Syria’s airspace is in the hands of Russia and partly in the hands of the USA. Well, if the US does not support Turkey’s attacks against us and helps our Movement, how come Turkey’s warplanes and drones can go 250 km inside Iraq’s interior lines? It is very well known that; Even if the USA wanted to, the bird would not fly; Even a bird will drop it if it crosses the border! Well, why doesn’t Turkish planes make a sound? Because it already supports it. Again, for example, the relationship of the USA with Rojava forces is constantly kept on the agenda, but for example, in 2019, we all saw that it was the USA that paved the way for the attacks of the Turkish state against Serêkaniyê and Girê Spî (Til Ebyad).
What is clear here is that; The Turkish state has always aimed to crush Kurdish movements by relying on external forces; now doing the same thing. Even now, it is not satisfied with the support of NATO alone; He is trying so hard to get the support of Russia. Didn’t Afrin carry out its attack with the support of Russia? Didn’t he gain a position against the Kurds by relying on Russia in various parts of Syria? In order to get support against the Kurds, it makes every effort by offering and marketing Turkey’s riches to the world’s superpowers, and aims to develop relations with Syria, as it is currently trying to establish.
Parallel to this, there are statements from some circles that your Movement is a US project. What are they based on, why are they making this claim?
It is clear that; There is a very unscrupulous situation here. They want to destroy the world’s most superpowers by directing them against the movement of the poor Kurdish people, which started out with the demand for freedom; they do not stop there, they say very brazenly, “The PKK has a relationship with the USA, this and that”, they say that it is a project. They are not ashamed at all when they say this.
Doğu Perinçek was a person I knew and talked to at the time. After that, the whole public knows what kind of personality he turned into. Now while he says he is anti-American, he says that our movement is a US project. So why is the US putting millions of dollars in bounties on our heads and not reflecting any contradictions other than their own anti-American rhetoric? Let the reflection of the contradiction, the MHP, which is the representative of the NATO Gladio, etc. they appear hand in hand with forces; they are very enthusiastic to take part in the same alliance with this project. Realities are very different. Along with those who put forward such ridiculous theories, all AKP trolls’ claims in this direction are completely false; They are great distortions presented very unscrupulously, very immorally. It is nothing else. In short, they are trying to get support from the whole world to crush and destroy the Kurds; they are not satisfied with it either, “Kurds have relations with foreign powers; They say they will tear Turkey apart. ‘That’s not all!’ It may be thought, but the reality is exactly like this.
How should we understand the relations of the Rojava revolutionary forces with the USA?
The partnership of Rojava structures with the USA in the fight against ISIS has developed under very extraordinary and very different conditions. As I just mentioned, Rojava is not the PKK. There may be those who are influenced by Leader Apo’s line and those who follow that line, but the PKK is a different phenomenon. In addition, the relationship of Rojava forces with the US and International Coalition forces is not a political relationship, but a relationship built on the common struggle against ISIS. For example, although US soldiers are there, they still do not have any political support for North-East Syria. Again, it is out of question for them to recognize the political status of Rojava. In fact, there were no representatives of North-East Syria in the UN meetings on Syria, since it did not have such support. If there was support from the USA, there would also be representatives from Rojava and North-East Syria. In short, seen there,
To attribute this unique situation here to the entire Kurdish Freedom Movement or to present the Kurdish Freedom Movement as an American project is a big distortion and a huge lie. They both shoot us by getting support from them and accuse us of being their relationship. AKP’s trolls discuss this on TV every day; they shamelessly say that the power they hit with the help of the power they rely on is a relation.
In one of your previous interviews, you stated that the AKP has something that it does not have, and that it is a master at presenting something that does not exist…
AKP’s report of distortion is full of stars. There are too many statements that do not speak the truth. From time to time, the opposition press also deals with such things. I apologize; they see the peoples of Türkiye as a herd. Whatever they say, the Anatolian people will accept as true; They think that if they apply pressure and violence, the Kurds will cringe and run away. No Such Thing. That period has passed. For example, the last words of the minister of justice. “We gave the Kurds their rights,” he says. Well, if you gave the Kurds so many rights and lifted the ban on the Kurdish language, why did you put people and politicians who serve the Kurdish language and keep the Kurdish culture alive in prisons! In addition, there are nearly ten thousand Kurdish politicians in the dungeons under the control of that minister of justice. How many of them are from the armed organization wing, that is, he was imprisoned while engaged in armed struggle? Not even his face. All others are political workers; All of them are people who carry out cultural activities, who carry out this work, who have been punished because of their Kurdishness and identity struggle. They both do this and lie brazenly. Since they never blush while doing all these, it means that they have a certain mastery in lying.
In the May 14 elections, two candidates attracted a lot of attention in the Green Left Party lists. Hasan Cemal and Cengiz Candar. Criticisms developed from some left sections towards HDP circles regarding the nomination of these two names. How do you evaluate this candidacy issue?
Yes, we have learned through the press that there are such discussions. To be honest, we did not see any mistake in the Green Left Party’s nomination of Mr. Hasan Cemal and Mr. Cengiz Çandar. On the contrary, we understood Turkey’s main problems as an effort to prepare such a list that could play a role in this because of their deep-rooted and comprehensive approach to the democratic solution of the Kurdish question. Of course I don’t know, but I hope so; At least that’s my opinion. This is how it looks from the outside. TRUE; There have been criticisms about the nomination of these two names by some well-known leftists in Turkey, and I know that some circles who call themselves ‘nationalists’ expressed their discomfort not only towards these two names, but generally towards the candidates from the leftist movements in Turkey. But we see such approaches wrong. They may criticize, but it is a fact; These people, who are the most advanced in Turkey’s well-known writers and journalists, and who were in an effective position as columnists in the organs called the mainstream media, saw the Kurdish problem before anyone else, boldly stated that Turkey’s democratization was a solution to the Kurdish problem, and insisted on this issue. are the owners. In this respect, the fact that the Green Left Party has nominated these people symbolizes the attitude of loyalty in one aspect and the attitude of casting a role in another aspect. For this reason, we understand that the HDP and the Green Left Party insist on solving the Kurdish problem on the axis of Turkey, and as a result of this insistence, they want to gather many valuable people, who can be influential in Turkish politics, under its roof. This is a good thing. This is a good thing for Turkey, the general struggle for democracy and the solution of problems. Basically, our people should see this and embrace such people more strongly.
On the other hand, the Turkish bourgeois ruling class and state made a very strategic effort to keep the leftist movement of Turkey and the Kurdistan Freedom Movement in separate lanes and to prevent them from coming together. If you pay attention; While May Day has been banned in Kurdistan cities for many years, Newroz has been banned in Turkish cities. All such practices are to prevent the joint struggle of the Kurdistan Freedom Movement and the working classes of Turkey, left-socialist-democratic movements. On the other hand; The colonialist Turkish state benefited greatly from the fact that the Communist Party of Turkey did not approach the rightful demands of the Kurdish people and the resistances that stemmed from it, and even made the TKP’s position a basis in marginalizing the Kurdish issue at the international level. Therefore, this issue is not a simple matter, but an important one. However, the same ruling classes have constantly put a brake on Turkey’s democratization due to the genocide, fascist oppression and security system they implemented in Kurdistan. From this point of view, partnership with the Kurdish Freedom Movement, unification, joint action is a very, very important issue in terms of democratization of Turkey and the development of the revolutionary movement in Turkey. For this reason, Leader Apo gave great importance to this issue in his debut. As is known, the first people with whom our Leader shared his views on the Kurdistan Freedom Struggle were Comrades Haki Karer and Kemal Pir from the Black Sea Region. Leader Apo never kept the Turkish revolution and the Kurdistan revolution separate. This attitude of our leadership at the beginning continues today. It has also put a brake on Turkey’s democratization due to the genocide, fascist oppression and security system it implemented in Kurdistan.
We consider the integrity of the Kurdistan Freedom Movement and Turkey’s left-socialist-democratic movement important. For this reason, we have always considered the alliance work carried out with the leftist movements in Turkey important, we have handled them at a strategic level. We never approached on a tactical basis. Even if there are some mutual deficiencies in practical applications from time to time, our main point of view is not like that. Because as I stated; First of all, the main direction of our Leader’s system of thought is the partnership of the Turkish revolution and the Kurdistan revolution on the axis of the brotherhood of the peoples.
On this occasion, I congratulate the upcoming 1 May World Workers’ Day of all working people, the oppressed classes and our patriotic people in Turkey, and I wish success to everyone who carries out the struggle of the oppressed in the circle of struggle from Newroz to May 1st.
Especially in recent days, there have been some discourses about Leader Apo within the framework of the election debates. Both the government and the opposition refer to this situation. How do you respond to these discussions?
First of all, it is not right to discuss our Leader within the framework of the election. Leader Apo is the strategic leadership of the people of Kurdistan and it is a heavy burden. Well-intentioned people should avoid making it a point of contention without thinking about it.
The Kurdish question and the Leadership issue, which are Turkey’s most fundamental problems, are not issues to be discussed, discussed and resolved within the framework of election tactics. Erdogan and AKP circles frequently raise the issue. In fact, this issue, which is the most fundamental issue of Turkey, is too serious to be addressed through election tactics. Not only the government, but also the opposition and especially the CHP circles, from time to time, make a point of discussion in a disrespectful manner. All of these are ordinaryizing attitudes that do not take the subject seriously. Our people and the public should not rely on such approaches in any way.
Everyone should know that; In the Kurdistan Freedom Movement there are not several focuses, there is only one focus. No matter how hard they try, they can no longer create different centers in the political-social structure of the Kurdish people, especially in Northern Kurdistan. Because the foundation of the right path and solution style has been firmly laid and this stance will continue to be the main force of success.
On 27 April, voting procedures started in Europe. On this occasion, what is your message to the patriotic-democratic voters in Europe?
As seen from the past elections, the Kurdistani masses in Europe do not like the elections very much. Participation rate is low. It is necessary to overcome this in the new period, because now it is not an ordinary election for all of Turkey and the Kurdish people, but an important one. The peoples of Türkiye will almost determine their fate with this election. Turkish society as a whole will vote on whether democracy or the dictatorship system will win. In this respect, this choice is of great importance.
In addition, the Kurdish people and the forces of leftist democracy have to demonstrate in the most effective way in this election that they are now a will in Turkish politics and that they have an indispensable role and mission. It is very important for the Green Left Party to get enough votes and support for the solution of the Kurdish problem and the democratization of Turkey.
In this respect, my call to all revolutionary, democratic and patriotic people in Europe is this: We should not be indifferent to this crucial process in Turkey and Kurdistan; it is absolutely necessary to go to the ballot box and choose the right line. My special appeal to all patriotic Kurdistanis; they must participate in the elections and vote for the Labor and Freedom Alliance. We should not forget that; If there is a dictatorship or oppression, it is to remain silent, to do nothing, to be a partner in that oppression. In this respect, if all our patriotic people in Europe do not want to be a partner in this persecution carried out by the AKP-MHP in Kurdistan, they should definitely go to the polls and show their opposition.
