NEWS CENTER – Remy Pagani, the former mayor of Geneva and current deputy of the Geneva Canton Parliament, answered the questions of Serkan Demirel from Medya Haber.
We know that you are a politician who has been following the Kurdish issue closely for a long time. In this sense, how do you evaluate the Kurdish policy of the Turkish State? I would like to start with a general question such as:
First of all, I would like to point out that. The minority in Turkey is actually the Turks, the majority is the Kurdish people. Kurds also make up Turkey’s proletariat. Despite this fact, the denial of the Kurds is a big problem, and the fact that the existence of the Kurdish people is not accepted has led to an armed struggle.
As you know, the Turkish state is currently waging a war against the PKK in Northern Iraq and against the Kurdish people in Rojava. How do you evaluate Turkey’s aggressive attitude towards the Kurdish people?
This approach of Turkey is completely wrong. To explain this, I would like to go back a bit and give an example from the history of Spain, namely the Basque, Catalan problem. Today Basques and Catalans have managed to speak their own language. Let’s take Switzerland as an example. There are 4 official languages here. Each society managed to live together by respecting the language and culture of the other part. While it is possible for different identities to live equally, the Turkish administration, which constitutes the Turkish bourgeoisie, prefers to fight against the Kurds by banning the Kurdish language, culture and identity.
The Turkish state still arrests hundreds of Kurdish politicians, the Kurdish deputies elected by democratic means, and throws them in prison. The Kurdish people’s most basic right, the right to self-government, is not allowed. All this is unacceptable and criminal.
On the other hand, we are faced with the experience of a democratic system that has been implemented by the PKK, especially in Rojava, that can serve as an example for Europe. For example, it is very important that women are at the center of this system.
The Turkish state sees this democratic system implemented under the leadership of the Kurds as unacceptable and is increasing its attacks against the Kurdish people.
‘EVERYONE KNOWS ERDOĞAN’S PARTNERSHIP WITH ISIS’
As you know, the Kurds fought against a terrorist organization such as ISIS, which plagued the world, and defeated them militarily. But today, powers like Europe and NATO prefer to remain silent against Turkey’s plan to invade Rojaya. How do you evaluate this attitude of the international community?
This attitude, in my opinion, is the hypocrisy of the USA, that is, of the West. The West needed the Kurds to eliminate ISIS, which is a great threat in itself. Thanks to the Kurds, this terror threat was eliminated. But the same west allows Erdogan to attack the Kurds who are fighting against ISIS. This attitude of the West is unacceptable.
Today, over 10 thousand gangs are held in Rojava Prisons. It is said that if Turkey invades the region, these imprisoned gangs will be released. What would you like to say about this?
About two years ago, I went to Northern Iraq, that is, Iraqi Kurdistan. According to the data I found there, Erdogan has made a series of economic agreements with the regional administrators, and he also supports the ISIS assets in that region. Erdogan’s relationship with ISIS is not new, everyone knows that. In this context, Erdogan sees the PKK as an obstacle against him. Considering Erdogan’s policies towards the region and his dirty relations in the region, if Turkey invades Rojava, it will release all jihadists there. Everyone should be aware that these imprisoned jihadists are a great fascist force and dangerous.
For example, I also visited Shengal while I was in the region. The traces of the massacre carried out by ISIS still remain. The people of Shengal fear that there will be new massacres.
Well, don’t the international powers and society see this danger you mention or are they not aware of it?
Erdogan continues to wage a dirty war against the Kurds by cunningly hiding himself behind this war and his role in the war in Ukraine.
For example; Erdogan threatens the West by saying, “If you want the grain crisis to be resolved or if you want Sweden to be included in NATO, you will not interfere with the war I wage in the region, especially the Kurds.”
Erdogan clearly wants to destabilize the region by taking advantage of the Ukraine-Russia war for his own expansionist policy and especially to stay in power.
Considering all these, I believe that Erdogan should leave power as soon as possible.
‘ERDOĞAN REGIME IS A DICTATORY SYSTEM’
Why do you think the Erdogan government should be abolished or how do you evaluate this regime?
First of all, I should point out that; The Erdogan regime is a purely dictatorial system. In the simplest way, it is a dictatorship to have anyone who sees opposition to it arrested.
For example, why is the former Mayor of Diyarbakır, Gültan Kışanak, in prison? I attended his court. The grounds for trial and arrest are entirely the services of the Mayor’s Office. I also served as the mayor, and I did all the crimes attributed to him here. Despite these simple accusations, Gültan Kışanak is still held in prison. If this isn’t dictatorship, then what is?
‘ERDOĞAN IS A THREAT TO EUROPE’
Do you see Erdogan as a threat to Europe as well?
Yes, Erdogan is a real threat to Europe. It is a threat, especially in the sense that it wants to destabilize Europe. With the Russia-Ukraine war, we saw that Europe came to the brink of war.
Erdogan can do more dangerous. Erdogan can change his strategy for a moment and then support the people who will spread terror in Europe. It is very possible for him to do this for his own interests.
What they did to get reelected today is an indication of that. For example, it arrests MPs in a way that has never been done in Europe.
For example, after the Catalan independence referendum and declaration, Spain arrested the Catalan politicians who initiated it. This situation affected the whole of Europe, but Europe did not react much.
If NATO member Turkey, namely Erdogan, arrests the parliamentarians, people will think that this is normal. We should clearly say that someone like Erdogan should not come to power. And we must take action so that democracy is truly respected in Turkey.
Do you think that the stance of NATO and Europe supports Erdogan’s policy?
Erdogan manages to show his opposition to the destabilization of the Middle East, including from time to time supporting Israel for his own interests. He makes good use of oppositions with a two-faced politics and uses these oppositions well against each other.
Apart from these, Erdogan is a loyal ally of NATO. The military bases of the USA in Turkey are indicative of these. There is also the Cyprus problem. Unfortunately, Erdogan manages to keep his dictatorship alive by using all these.
Again, we know that Erdogan mobilized extreme Turkish nationalist groups against opposition groups in Europe at certain times. For example, 3 Kurds were killed in France more recently. The Kurds claim that they were organized by the Turkish state. What would you like to say about this?
I myself have been subjected to pressure from these groups. Before going to the court of some trade unionists and politicians in Turkey, the Turkish consular officials here warned me not to go to Turkey. I went anyway. It is a fact that this ultra-nationalist group called Gray Wolves is acting in a dark way in Europe. Turkish authorities sometimes do not hide their affiliation with them.
‘ERDOĞAN COMMITS WAR CRIME AGAINST THE Kurds’
If we go back to the war waged by the Turkish state in Kurdistan. A short while ago, the PKK revealed through the videos they published that the Turkish state was using chemical weapons against PKK guerrillas. How do you evaluate this situation?
I heard from interviews in the press that Erdogan’s army used banned gases. Not only this. When I went to Iraqi Kurdistan, I had the opportunity to talk to Kurdish fighters. For example, with war device drones, they detect everything alive in the area and bombard those areas. They are also killing civilians with these attacks. Unfortunately, Kurdish fighters do not have the means to counter this technique. In this sense, these attacks of the Turkish state constitute a war crime.
We went to Iraqi Kurdistan to detect these war crimes of Erdogan on the spot, but unfortunately, due to the embargo imposed on us, they did not allow us to go to the conflict zones.
‘PKK IS A RESISTANCE MOVEMENT’
As you know, Europe and many countries still keep the PKK on the list of ‘terrorist’ organizations, how do you evaluate this?
This is a two-faced policy. Because this decision is in the interest of many segments. NATO does not want a Kurdish autonomous region to form in Turkey, just like in Iraq. Again, they do not want the Kurds to unite in their fragmented geography. In this sense, they support Erdogan’s war against the Kurds by placing the PKK on the terror list.
I think the PKK is a resistance movement and I see it that way. This resistance has been going on for decades. Thanks to this resistance, the Kurdish lands in Syria were liberated and Rojava was built. Today, a democratic system in which women are at the center has been built in Rojava.
‘The Isolation ON ÖCALAN TURNED INTO TORTURE’
As you know, Kurdish People’s Leader Abdullah Öcalan has been kept under severe isolation conditions for a long time. How do you evaluate this situation?
First of all, I condemn this isolation against Mr. Öcalan and I believe that everyone should condemn this situation. For nearly two years, neither his family nor his lawyers have heard from him. It has been kept in harsh conditions for many years.
And with the last isolation, the practices against Mr. Öcalan have turned into torture.
I visited some prisons in Turkey with delegations before.
Prisons in Turkey were built entirely according to psychological torture centers. You can’t see anyone but the guards. It’s like hell. I have visited mass prisons in Colombia where 2500 people stay, I can say that those prisons are in more humane conditions than Turkish prisons.
‘ÖCALAN SHOULD BE FREE’
What would you like to say about the role of Kurdish People’s Leader Abdullah Öcalan in the solution of the Kurdish problem?
In my opinion, there will come a time when we will find solutions for the Kurdish problem. Erdogan historically tried to solve the Kurdish problem for a while, and in this context, there were political talks with Öcalan and the PKK. But when he realized that this process was not in his own interests, he gave up his desire for a solution. A solution to armed conflicts has been found in the world, albeit for a long time. I believe that a process will come in the solution of the Kurdish question, in which Mr. Öcalan is also a representative.
Wouldn’t it be very difficult for him to lead such a process under these conditions?
Yes definitely. First of all, it should be connected to the outside under minimum conditions and the prison conditions should be improved. He should then be liberated to lead a solution process as the representative of the PKK.
