BEHDINAN – Underlining that they used their right to resist the genocidal policies of the AKP-MHP fascist government for freedom, Murat Karayılan said, “They send us some messages from time to time. We want peace, they say in your statements that you want peace, state that you have made your defense, they say. If they really want to be friends with the Kurdish people, a solution will be found and the Kurdish people will be able to live freely in their ancestral lands like all the peoples of the region. At that time, no Kurdish organization fighting for freedom will be included in the ‘terror list’,” he said.
PKK Executive Committee Member Murat Karayılan, who participated in Stêrk TV’s ‘Special Program’, evaluated the 25th anniversary of the International Conspiracy and the Russia-Turkey-Iran-Syria talks in the second part of the interview:
We are on the anniversary of the International Conspiracy against Kurdish People’s Leader Abdullah Öcalan. How do you evaluate the conspiracy that took place 24 years ago?
First of all, on the 24th anniversary of the International Conspiracy, I strongly condemn all the forces involved in the conspiracy. In the person of Heval Halit Oral and Rojbin Arab, I commemorate all our comrades who set their bodies on fire with the slogan ‘You cannot darken our sun’, and I bow respectfully before their memories. With their stance, they showed us how to take a stand against the International Conspiracy. At the beginning of the conspiracy, they stood against the conspiracy, turning their lives into a ball of fire. They claimed the Leadership with great will. In prisons, in the mountains, on the streets, in the cities, not only the cadres, but also the patriots carried out self-deprecating actions. A national reflex was shown against the conspiracy. Of course, the conspiracy was an attack on our people, on the existence, future and freedom of our people in the person of Leader Apo. For this reason, our people are heroic everywhere, especially in Rojhilat. They took to the streets with great courage and embraced the Leadership. They are still in the fields. Many actions were taken in Europe, in four parts of Kurdistan. At that time, the US Secretary of State, who signed this conspiracy, made a statement saying, “We did not expect this much.” In other words, our people massively stood against the conspiracy and embraced Leader Apo. Because our people saw that this attack was done to them in the person of the Leader.
Leader Apo stood firm against these difficult conditions in the Imrali torture chamber with great will. He faced the hardest, heaviest days. We were all very bad, we wanted to take action, but Rêber Apo said, “No, this is not the only solution. This is a method too, but not just this method. We must defeat the conspiracy,” he said. And with his politics in Imrali, he thwarted the conspiracy. The leadership then developed the female libertarian ecological paradigm. The enemy wanted to completely eliminate and liquidate Leader Apo’s line. That’s why they made this conspiracy, but the conspiracy came to naught as a result of the strong will of our people, Kurdish women, Kurdish youth, and all patriots, with the departure of Leader Apo. Thus, contrary to the aim of the enemy, the Apoist movement grew even more. It used to be only in Northern Kurdistan, now there are four parts of Kurdistan. a spread. Later, with the development of the democratic modernity paradigm against capitalist modernity, Leader Apo became the leader of not only the Kurds but also the peoples. Rêber Apo’s line is much stronger today than it was 24 years ago. Maybe 5-6 times stronger. Leader Apo presented the solution of the problems in the world to the public with the paradigm of democratic modernity.
Undoubtedly, the conspiracy was in vain. This was the result of resistances, self-sacrificing actions, the genius of Rêber Apo, and his strong will to oppose psychological torture. Likewise, jin jiyan azadi emerged with the development of the women’s line, the development of the will of the Kurdish women, the growth of the women’s liberation movement, and the impact it had on the region and the world. But I want to point out that; The conspiracy is still going on. There are also great reactions, mass actions and a political struggle against the conspiracy. Apoist militants are waging a great struggle in Zap, Avaşîn and Metîna, setting an example to the world today. Again, Kurdish politics resists all kinds of oppression. Leader Apo’s stance in Imrali is in itself a unique and very meaningful resistance. This is the attitude of our people. These show that the conspiracy was not successful. But the conspiracy continues. Our people are asking the conspirators with their actions. Clarification awaits. Why was this conspiracy made? What did the Kurdish people do to you? Why did you attack this people like that? What is the reason? Explain this topic. They will surely give a reason, but we don’t know what it is. They need to explain it. This is a.
CPT PLAYING A ROLE IN THE CONSTRUCTION BY LEGALIZING THE IMRALI TORTURE
Latter; Why is the conspiracy still going on? The siege of our movement, the fact that it is still on the ‘terror list’ and the attitude of the CPT is the biggest proof that the conspiracy continues. The CPT is the Council of Europe’s international organization for the prevention of torture. However, the position of the CPT on the İmralı issue is a matter of debate. Does it really fulfill its role of preventing torture or is it an obstacle to preventing torture; this is a matter of debate. The statements of the CPT are dubious, they do not take into account the will of the Kurdish people, they lie. The CPT itself does not do this, it represents a line. Obviously, the CPT is also involved as an institution in the conspiracy. He normalizes and legitimizes torture during his visits to İmralı. He plays such a role in the conspiracy. He may say that his role is not like that, but in practice he does justice to this role.
Our people know that the conspiracy was developed by America, England, Germany and Israel, but there are other forces involved in the conspiracy. An explanation awaits from them. So why did they develop such a conspiracy and why did they continue? A movement like ISIS emerged from the dogmatism that exists in the darkness of the Middle East. This movement was a threat to the whole world. They used a method that neither the Syrian state nor Iraq could resist. How was it stopped, who stopped them in the first place? Leader Apo stopped. Leader Apo had already given perspective for Shengal, he also declared mobilization during the Kobanê period. Leader Apo’s warriors stepped in as a self-sacrifice. At that time, Shengal and Maxmur were intervened, ISIS mercenaries were prevented from entering Hewlêr. Kirkuk was intervened to support the Peshmerga.
They played an important role here. Recently, it was the anniversary of the liberation of Kobanê. On this occasion, I commemorate all the heroic martyrs who fought for the freedom of Kobanê with respect. We know how that resistance developed. The free press and some commentators make comments such as ‘Everyone gave their direction to Kobanê, they ran to Kobanê’. Everyone has struggled a little bit, it is interpreted as if they are liberated. The truth is a little different. They wanted to turn Kobanê into ruins and completely destroy it.
EU MUST CHANGE US POLICIES
At such a moment, US Secretary of State John Kerry said, “There is nothing we can do for Kobanê.” The Prime Minister of the time, Erdogan, said in Antep, “Kobanê has fallen, it is falling”. But then a will came out and said, “No, it will not fall”. Who was that will? It was an apocalyptic will. It intervened with a force that no one could stand against and strengthened the resistance of the YPG-YPJ. The one who defeated ISIS is in absolute isolation and torture in Imrali. The leadership saved humanity from great trouble. The development of women’s freedom and the development of democratic society enlightened the Middle East. Why did these forces attack this light? We want them to explain this. Why do they want to dim the light? If they really want to be friends with the Kurdish people, a solution will be found and the Kurdish people will be able to live freely in these lands, in the lands of their ancestors, like all the peoples of the region. At that time, no Kurdish organization fighting for freedom will be included in the ‘terror list’. This list is wrong. The AKP-MHP fascist government has made this list a reason for itself and considers all Kurds fighting for freedom as ‘terrorists’. And it is attacking them, carrying out state terror everywhere.
There has been no attack against the Kurdish people in the South, Shengal, Rojava, or Bakur for 40 years. For what reason is he doing this? The EU justifies the USA’s putting the PKK on its ‘terror list’. He says, ‘It’s on their list, my actions are legitimate’. It’s based on it, they support it too. This is support. How could they bomb the people every day if they didn’t support it? For example, they bombed the street in the Dêrik district of Rojava the other day, and a person and a child who were in the shop were martyred. Where do they get the courage? These forces are responsible for the attacks. Therefore, these powers should change their policies. It is enough. End the conspiracy now. This is what our people expect.
What happens if this policy ends? Every now and then they send us some messages. They say, “We want peace, you want peace in your statements, state that you are making your defense”. We are also defending, we already want peace. Didn’t Leader Apo say, “Give me a chance, I will solve this problem in a week. But this bloodthirsty enemy wants to get results by shedding blood and spreading terror. In other words, it aims to achieve results by murdering the Kurdish people. We are resisting the genocidal attacks. We are resisting for freedom and against the genocidal policies of the AKP-MHP fascist government. This is the truth, this is what our resistance is for. We did not attack them. We respond to their attacks and we will. This is our universal right. Of course we want peace, but when they attack, we will never back down against them. In the spirit of Sara and the Rukens, we will give them the necessary answer. We will respond in the spirit of the bouncers; no one should doubt it.
IF THEY ARE SINCERE IN PEACE, THEY REMOVE THE ‘TERROR LIST’
We are a people and we are the will. We will not allow the policy of genocide to be carried out in these lands. If the enemy persists, this war will continue for decades. If they take some collaborators with them and say that we will win, they are only deceiving themselves. The Kurdish people have made their decision, it is clear in the person of the martyrs. If the states that carried out the conspiracy change their policies, the Turkish state will also be helpless. If anyone is sincere in their desire for peace, they should first eliminate this ‘terror list’.
Again, these current policies in Imrali must come to an end. Because Imrali was built on the basis of the policy of genocide. This problem can be solved on the basis of Leader Apo’s physical freedom, and peace can develop in Kurdistan and the Middle East. If the war still continues today, it is due to the politics of the conspiratorial forces. They support the policy of the Turkish state and therefore the Turkish state uses all kinds of weapons. They can’t get any results, but they don’t stop using banned weapons because they have international powers behind them.
VIAN ASKING WAS NOT ORDINARY
17th anniversary of the martyrdom of Viyan Soran, one of the martyrs of ‘You cannot darken our sun’. What was rejected in the person of Viyan Soran and what did Viyan Soran’s action mean?
First of all, I commemorate heval Viyan Soran, Veysi Taş and Mehmet Akar with respect. I bow respectfully before their memory. They set their bodies on fire, performing a self-defeating action against the conspiracy.
Heval Viyan was a friend in our management. We served together on the KCK Executive Council. He was a young friend; He was 22 years old. He was chosen as the youth representative. Heval Viyan, a native of Bashure Kurdistan, was from the Caf tribe. He followed in the footsteps of Leyla Qasim. Her name is Leyla Wali Hisên anyway. She was no ordinary friend, she. He was a very intelligent, brave, strong-willed, fearless and confident friend. He knew Leader Apo’s thoughts and ideas, he had read a lot. It was busy day and night. The participation of a young friend in this way gave strength and morale. During the liquidation process, the PKK Reconstruction Committee, consisting of 12 people, was established. Heval Viyan also took part in the 12-member committee. She fulfilled this task with great effort. In the preparation of the program, in the plan of the congress, he even put a lot of effort into the preparation of the hall and later wanted to join the military forces. He insisted a lot. He didn’t want to be a manager. Clearly, he had aimed to commit a self-deprecating action from the very beginning.
At that time, as now, there was a heavy isolation against Leader Apo. For example, there is isolation right now, but there are also efforts to break the isolation. But there was silence at that time. Heval Viyan showed his reaction against this silence as one of the administration. He called on everyone by setting his body on fire. Then he left a long letter, I think everyone has read that letter. Although we did not find the method correct, it was very sad for us to lose such a valuable militant. He set fire to Rêber Apo’s body in Heftanîn to draw attention to his condition. Moreover, he was the commander of that region, it was very difficult for us. But his action had a purpose; He was sending a message to everyone. It lit a spark to wake everyone up. He gave the message of how to protect Rêber Apo, how to become a militant of Rêber Apo, how to be a sacrifice.
Such actions have been taken in recent days. Veysi Taş and Mehmet Akar carried out similar actions. To what extent do such actions find their place or not find their place in this period? How do you see these actions in general?
First of all, it should be said: The actions of these friends must be interpreted and made sense of in many ways. Heval Bubo; that is, Veysi Taş was 65 years old. For 45 years he had acted as a volunteer, patriotic. He has been in and out of the dungeon many times. He has not left his land. Sometimes friends say, “Whoever drinks the PKK’s water can never give up.” In other words, heval Bubo drank the PKK and Rêber Apo’s ideology. Heval had known Hayri Durmuş in the dungeon. He couldn’t break away; He had a house, family, children. However, he did not give up the fight. Finally, he shot a video within the limits of his possibilities. Like that heval Viyan, he wanted to do his act without anyone hearing. What he said in the video he shot was very, very meaningful. “I condemn the isolation and protest by taking such an action,” he said. This is how he sacrificed his life. Undoubtedly, it appeals to everyone.
BECOME A MEMBER OF THE IMMORTAL BATTLE
Mehmet Akar’s situation is much more interesting. He is a Kurdish youth, he disappears from home for a while. The state immediately brings the family before the HDP and puts it among those families. Then he came out and said, “No, I’m here”. So, apparently, the state is conducting a special warfare policy on him. The state tricked the family a bit. They get Mehmet married, but they can’t control his heart and soul. The self-sacrificing spirit in his heart is developing and getting stronger. He has developed the spirit of sacrifice in all this psychological warfare. He strengthened his Kurdishness. For example, he writes in Kurdish, which is very meaningful. I also want to point out that; heval Mehmet’s brother, heval Çiya Sîpan, was also a devoted friend, he was in the Special Forces (Hêzên Taybet). He was a good friend who was always ready to sacrifice himself. He was martyred in Qandil as a result of the attacks of the Turkish state in 2016. He was martyred while fulfilling his important duties. He was a very valuable friend. Obviously, Mehmet Akar is like his brother Çiya Sîpan.
He is doing the same action where heval Zekiye Alkan set her body on fire at Newroz by developing her self-sacrificing spirit under such tough, heavy conditions and attacks. And “May the light of the fire that ignites my body illuminate Imrali. It is my hope that this action will lead to the physical freedom of Leader Apo.” It says something very short and meaningful. It gives a very important message to all Amed youth, to the youth of Kurdistan. What both Veysi Taş and heval Mehmet Akar do is sacrifice. Very meaningful. By their actions, they became members of the Immortals’ battalion. It is a very meaningful stance. As I said, especially young people and women should make sense.
CLOSE THE ENEMY NOT YOURSELF
The forces involved in the conspiracy, too, see that the Kurdish people, in the person of heval Veysi Taş and heval Mehmet Akar, are saying that enough is enough. Believe me, if our KCK Council Co-Presidency had not made a statement on the same day, maybe dozens of people would have done the same thing. Fortunately, our co-presidency said, “We do not accept this. In the past, Rêber Apo also did not accept the method of burning himself, neither do we, no one should resort to this method. “Burn the enemy, not yourself,” he said. That’s how it got ahead. The forces involved in the conspiracy and the Turkish state should take this into account. Heval Mehmet Akar gave the biggest answer to Erdoğan, who thought that he would be successful in the election by killing the Kurds. Because Erdogan mostly focuses on these families. This is how Kurdish youth will answer you. The conspiratorial states should learn from this, and our people should also make sense of it. As our KCK Co-Presidency said, this is not the right method. The period is not to protest the conspiracy, but to defeat the conspiracy. When the conspiracy is defeated, Rêber Apo’s physical freedom is realized.
A KNIFE IN THE HEART OF THE GUERILLA ENEMY
You don’t need to burn yourself for this, you need to burn the enemy. Let neither sympathizers nor patriots, especially friends, think about the act of burning. Now February 15 is approaching; friends used to do this action on February 15th. Our movement was criticized and some did not even announce it at all. I’m saying this too. No one should resort to this method. The guerrilla should deepen itself further along the lines of Rêber Apo. Again, young people should join the guerrilla ranks. The guerrilla today is like a dagger in the heart of the enemy. The enemy is lifting tens of planes and spending millions of dollars to martyr a guerrilla today. Because he is so afraid of the guerrilla. Therefore, those who want to be willpower against the enemy should join the guerrilla. It is my call to all young people; During this period, no one should set their body on fire.
Russia, Turkey, Iran and Syria met recently. They obviously came together over the Kurdish gains. What would you say about these talks?
It’s true, we’re following too. There are different plans against the Kurdish Freedom Movement. Russia is one of the forces involved in the conspiracy. Maybe it wasn’t the ruling force, but it did play a role in the conspiracy. I hope Russia will not take a stand against the Kurdish Freedom Movement. But everyone is based on their own interests. This is the reality of today’s politics. But it is Erdogan’s policy that has brought Syria into this situation. He destroyed Syria, gathered all the gangs in Syria around him and wanted to defeat Kurdish politics in this way. Afterwards, he said, “I will go and pray in Damascus.” Erdogan is the enemy of the Syrian peoples.
Initially, the PYD and YPG had relations with Turkey. PYD Co-Chair Salih Muslim visited Turkey several times. At that time, there was a ceasefire between us and the Turkish state. It was a process called “solution”, but not a solution process. AKP evaluated this in the context of a special war. But there was dialogue. At that time, the demand of the Turkish state was for the Kurds to attack Damascus as well. For example, they openly said to seize the customs gate in Qamishlo and we will give you everything. Then they said, give direction to Aleppo and Şêxmaqsûd so that Aleppo will fall. They wanted Aleppo to fall. In this way, they would go to Damascus. The Kurds did not accept this.
THE MANAGEMENT OF DAMASCUS MUST NOT FAIL
We can say that this is one of the reasons why Erdogan changed his policy towards the Kurds and Rojava. Not the only reason, of course, but it was also a reason. Kurdish politics insisted on the line, did not stand against Syria. Had it stopped, Syria would have been defeated. Syria now relies on Russia and Iran. But in the beginning, for example in 2012, 2013, if the Kurds had stood up to them, as Turkey said, they would have failed. If they have not failed today, it is the result of the Kurdish policy carried out in Rojava and the autonomous system built in North-East Syria. As a result of this policy, Kurds and Arabs united. The Kurds, together with the pro-democracy Arabs, defeated ISIS. This is how Syria survived. This is the truth. Therefore, the government of Damascus should not make a mistake. Bashar Assad must not make mistakes. Look at history, Mr. Hafez Assad’ How did it stand up against so many attacks? It was with the support of the Kurds, officially or unofficially. Again, if Saddam Hussein had been involved with the Kurds and had made some changes in himself, it probably wouldn’t have ended like this.
Kurdish society is permanent in these lands, no one should be surprised. We hope that the Syrian government does not make a mistake here and strengthen the hand of Tayyip Erdogan. Tayyip Erdogan is currently making an election tactic. Erdogan is stuck right now. He was not successful in Syrian politics. The biggest reason for its failure is the resistance of North-East Syria. So Syria has failed in its policy. For this, he tries to do the opposite of everything he has done in the past. Because he is helpless. The first is going to the election. That’s why he’s taking steps for Syria. Syria should reject it, not accept it. If he accepts, he will make a big mistake and lose his remaining friends and citizens. This should not be mistaken. This is a bloodthirsty, anti-Syrian, anti-Kurdish, anti-democratic fascist regime. He is very angry at the Kurdish-Arab alliance. He wants to attack for it. Syria should not be with this regime, it should stand against it. We hope that the Syrian regime learns from these experiences and does not engage in such a dirty policy. The people of the region have made their decision. They will resist in all conditions. We hope that the Syrian administration sees this truth and avoids making mistakes.
Is there anything you want to add something?
We are entering the 25th year of the International Conspiracy. The developments in the war, the guerrilla resistance, the Imrali resistance, our people, Kurdish politics and friends of the Kurdish people, Turkey’s leftist politics raised the bar. The current resistance, especially in Zap, Avaşîn and Metîna, continues. A will developed that showed that the Turkish state could not reach a conclusion. He stopped the Turkish state. They wanted to occupy the Medya Defense Zones within two weeks, but for two years they could not. There is still a war on the Zap. There is war in the west of Zap, there is war in the east of Zap. This is a will. Leader Apo’s stance, the will of our people, and the will of our comrades in prison have raised the level today.
THE STRUGGLE FOR FREEDOM AND DEMOCRACY ENTERS A NEW STAGE
AKP-MHP fascism has now weakened. If they had succeeded against us, they would have become stronger. There is a great economic, political, social crisis and hunger right now. The system is in crisis in many areas. The Kurdish freedom struggle has also been Turkey’s struggle for democracy and freedom today. Currently, there is an opposition in the system, which they call the ‘Table of 6’, that is, they call themselves the opposition, but if the AKP-MHP regime had succeeded against the guerrilla, if it had succeeded in the Garê in 2021 and in the Zap in 2022, it would have gone to the elections and would have been successful. In other words, the main opposition today is the Kurdistan Freedom Guerrilla and the Kurdistan Freedom Movement. Nobody should be surprised. Of course, it may be against Turkey’s sensitivities, but nobody should be surprised. If AKP-MHP had defeated us or had taken a step back with İmralı, they would have continued their regime. It stood like a steel will against the Kurdish Freedom Movement and the Turkish Democracy Movement. No one should forget this.
In the 25th year of the Conspiracy, the resistance entered a new phase. Guerrilla struggle is now at a new stage. The struggle for freedom and democracy has entered a new phase. There is also an election and there will be new developments in this context. This is the period when the conspiracy and the fascist regime will be defeated and the absolute isolation will be broken. Therefore, we must join the struggle more strongly. Let’s make this year a year that will bring the struggle for freedom, democracy, democratization of Turkey to success, and ensure the physical freedom of the Leader and the freedom of Kurdistan. Let’s participate in this way. Let’s defeat the conspiratorial forces on the 25th anniversary of the International Conspiracy.
