NEWS CENTER – Underlining that Kurdish People’s Leader Abdullah Öcalan, whom they had not heard from for 21 months, was threatened to accept a solution to the Kurdish problem based on individual rights, Karayılan said, “We call on everyone to join this struggle for the oppression in Imrali to be stopped and for the physical freedom of Rêber Apo.”
PKK Executive Committee Member Murat Karayılan answered the questions of the Sulaymaniyah-based Kurdish news channel KNN TV.
The Turkish state has launched an attack on Medya Defense Zones since April. What would you like to say about the attacks that have been going on for months? What is the latest status?
The main problem right now is: After the war with ISIS, the Kurds came to the fore in the Middle East and the Turkish state was afraid of this situation. They feared the Kurds becoming a state and the disintegration of Turkey. To prevent this, they introduced the new Ottoman concept. They established a plan aimed at occupying the borders of the National Pact. We shared this plan with the Bashure Kurdistan organizations and said that there is such a danger. The Turkish state sees the status of the Kurds as a threat to them. We have a survivability problem, we need to solve this problem. That’s why they said, “Let’s act jointly not only in Turkey but also outside of Turkey and abolish the status of the Kurds.” For this reason, they pursued a policy in Rojava that the Kurds should never have a status. They also used the PKK as a reason. They said, ‘There is PKK, that’s why we’re leaving’. That was the excuse;
In fact, they started a major war against the Kurds again in 2016. We have been resisting the Turkish state ever since. After talking about the plan of the Turkish state with the Kurdish forces from Bashur, these forces fell silent and did not cooperate with us. Some even cooperated with the Turkish state. The Turkish state wants to occupy the whole of Bashure Kurdistan, especially the places we are in. Moreover, it wants to annex, we cannot just say occupation. In other words, it attaches itself to whatever it takes and becomes permanent there. It costs a lot. This is annexation. We also developed new methods against the attacks of the Turkish state. We have a long experience of warfare in these mountains.
The Turkish state wants to achieve results with more air strikes, and we have taken our measures against this. First; we reduced and distributed our forces in the field and developed professionalism. Undoubtedly, our forces are self-sacrificing forces, they can wage war in different ways and methods. Latter; we took our forces underground, we developed the tunnels with great effort. When the Turkish state came and saw this situation, it was surprised and stuck where it was. Therefore, it could not develop in the field. We are now intertwined with the Turkish state. For example, the Turkish state has even brought tanks to Girê Hekarî and is waging war with planes and chemical weapons. Even at this hour, there is a very tough war going on. Yes, they have come to the back of Sheladize, but we are there too and the war continues like that. Same with Zap. They even had to withdraw from some areas of the Zap.
NO STATE HAS ATTENDED THE OPCW
HPG announced that the Turkish state used chemical weapons in the attacks. You have made many calls to international institutions and the public regarding the use of chemical weapons. Have you ever received a response to these calls? Do the forces you call upon prefer to be silent?
First of all, I would like to point out that; The use of chemical weapons is a fact, not a claim. Just as the Turkish state used chemical weapons in the caves during the Dersim genocide, it is now using it against the guerrillas in the tunnels. He wants to get results with chemical weapons because they do not dare to enter the tunnels. Undoubtedly, we have some measures against it. Because we have been exposed to chemical weapons attacks for years. In 2017, chemical weapons were used against our friends in Katoyê Jîrka in Bakur. At that time, our friends showed great resistance for 55 days. Again last year, the Turkish state used chemical weapons in Dersim. So we have some experience, we have tools within our means. Of course, there are obstacles, not all tools are in our hands, but we defend ourselves with what we have. Again, in many places, we prevent the enemy from coming close. For example, the Turkish state has been attacking the Çemço region with all its technology for 8 months, but so far it has not been able to go beyond 500 meters. He cannot use chemical weapons there. He uses it when approaching tunnels.
We did not apply directly to a place regarding the use of chemicals, but we made a call to the public. The images of the friends, the evidence and documents proved that chemical weapons were used. The Organization for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW) says that the state should apply for chemical weapons, but does not accept individual applications. Neither state applied.
TURKISH STATE CONTINUES TO COMMIT CRIMES
They told us that the application of the Kurdistan Regional Government was accepted, but the regional government did not apply either. Why not apply? Because they have already prevented independent committees from coming and doing research. We want to bring masks, they are also blocking it. We also have such a problem. Independent committees against the use of chemical weapons also apply to the OPCW. With the documents and evidence we presented to the public, we proved that the Turkish state used chemical weapons. The Turkish state was exposed in this sense, and there was a reaction. Some deputies made statements, they were discussed in parliaments, but no one actually intervened in the Turkish state due to the use of chemical weapons. This is an international crime, but the Turkish state continues to commit this crime.
IRAQ POWERS PROTECT THOSE INVOCATE THE COUNTRY
The Iraqi Government and the Kurdistan Region Government are
planning to deploy Iraqi soldiers to the border. Will you allow those soldiers to come to the regions you are in and settle on the border?
There are currently some forces on the border on behalf of the Iraqi state, but I don’t think the role they play is unique in the world. The Turkish state has invaded their lands and they are defending the Turkish state. These forces, acting as Iraqi Border Guards, are positioned in certain places for the security of the Turkish state. They do not protect the border. They protect those who invade their country. There is no such thing. If they really want to protect the border, we don’t oppose it, we even help. But the Turkish state has already crossed the border too far. In some regions, it has entered the territory of Kurdistan for 30 km. They have annexed, not invaded. The Iraqi government currently does not have information on the entire region. Kurdistan Regional Government has it, but they also want to cover it up. I don’t think the information is widely shared with Iraq either.
The Turkish state wants to settle in the lands of Southern Kurdistan, for which they spend a lot of money. If it weren’t for us, they would have settled all over the place just last year, waving their sticks in Hewlêr. But we have been fighting for two years. It is true, they have taken some areas in Avaşîn, but the guerrilla is also around them. They cannot move freely. Same with Zap. If we do not wage such a war here, the Turkish state will go further. As I said, if the Iraqi state is really going to close the border, we are not against it. But the issue is not that the Turkish state crosses the border, but that it wants to annex them. In short, we are also in favor of the protection of the border. The allegation that the PKK crossed the Iraqi border and attacked the Turkish state and returned to Iraqi territory is not true. PKK clashed in Muş a week ago, 7 soldiers were killed, 1 of our comrades was martyred. The PKK is fighting in Dersim, Botan and Serhat. The PKK does not need to cross the Iraqi border and attack the Turkish state, on the contrary, the Turkish state has crossed the Iraqi border, is settling everywhere, we come across it and say no, you cannot invade this place. Turkey is attacking, not the PKK. As some say, the PKK did not bring war to Bashur, the Turkish state wants to occupy Bashur, the PKK is fighting against it, it is defending Bashur. The war waged by the PKK is a war to protect the lands of Kurdistan. Therefore, if the border is to be closed, we are not against it. The claims of the Turkish state are false, they use the PKK as an excuse to implement the concepts of occupation. For example, who went and protested from Rojava and Afrin right now and said, ‘There is a threat against us’ He invaded Rojava territory by saying? When we look at the occupation system of the Turkish state, we see that it is not an ordinary situation. The Turkish state has built 128 military bases from Heftanîn to Xakurkê, Zap, Metîna and Avaşîn. There are an estimated 30,000 soldiers in these bases. In order for the Turkish state to get out of these places, it is necessary to carry out a very serious military and political struggle.
MILITARY ATTACKS ARE NOT THE SOLUTION
Along with the activity of the Iraqi Government and the Kurdistan Regional Government, Iran is also making threats of attack. What will your attitude be if Iran also launches a military attack?
The main thing is: The Kurdish problem is a national, social and political problem in the Middle East. It cannot be solved by military force. The Turkish state is trying to solve it with violence. This is not possible. If Iran uses the same method and attacks, it would be wrong. The Kurdish question is a political one, so it must be resolved through political means and methods. We have never sought a solution with violence anywhere and we are against it. All forces should be approached like this. The Islamic Republic of Iran should also act in this way. Military attacks are not the solution. Our people of Rojhilat and the people of Iran have been on the ground for months, they want freedom, they want rights. The problem is in Iran, not Bashur. We will not accept such an attack. We are absolutely against the ways and methods that use violence.
Mr. Cemil Bayık recently sent a letter to the political parties established in Dukan. Could you give some brief information about the demands written in the letter?
In his letter, Heval Cemil Bayık greets the meeting led by Kek Bafil Talabani and offers his support. There is also a call for the union of different political parties to transform into a national unity. According to the information conveyed by friends, the content of the letter is as follows.
Efforts must be made to establish national unity. Because we need more national unity in this process. As KCK, we fulfill our responsibility for the protection of the Bashur status, for the protection of the gains of our people in Kurdistan, for the protection of the Iraqi federal system. Just as we put our forces into action in the ISIS attack, went to Kirkuk, Maxmur, Duhok, Shengal, and fulfilled our duty that day, today we are fulfilling our duty by resisting the Turkish state’s invasion of Bashur. The letter calls for national unity on this basis. The content of the letter is as follows. Many people have already listened at the meeting, and I think that the public also knows about the content of the letter.
POLITICAL PARTIES IN BAŞUR MUST BE ACTIVE
What is your message to other political parties other than KDP and YNK?
First of all, we convey our greetings and respect to all our brothers and sisters. We especially salute the Goran Movement. The Goran Movement developed under the leadership of the esteemed revolutionary Newshirwan Mustafa. Since its establishment, the Goran Movement has been giving hope. Because he’s walking a straight line. But it should be more active. Perhaps some discussion can be carried out on these issues. I believe they will get stronger. Our people are very hopeful about the Goran Movement. Therefore, an effort should be made accordingly.
There are also Islamic Movements, but they are not all the same. For example, Yekgirtî Islami, Komeleya Islami. I think his new name is Dadwerî, they are patriots and they act on the basis of their beliefs. We have expectations from such patriotic movements, whether Islamic or left. Especially Hizbî Shûî, Hizbî Zehmetkêşan, Socialist, Tevgera Azadî and other parties whose names I have not mentioned… There are many political parties and organizations in Başûr. Not everything is KDP and PUK, but these forces are not very active in this process. There is a great war in Kurdistan and the Turkish state is occupying Bashur, organizing in Kirkuk, organizing in Mosul, training its supporters, the Turkmen. They say Hewler is ours too. It also has a policy towards Kurdistan economically. Against this, these forces should not remain silent, they should be active. They shouldn’t be expecting only the government on this issue.
The Kurdistan Regional Government is currently conducting a policy. Officially the Kurdistan Regional Government; We also respect that, but the policy he pursued with the Turkish state was not correct and was not in the interest of the Kurdish people. The Turkish state is a state that sees the gains and status of the Kurdish people as a threat to itself. Didn’t Erdogan himself say that we made a mistake in Northern Iraq, and we will not allow the same thing to happen in Syria. They may be developing tactics against the PKK right now, but they will also target Southern Kurdistan tomorrow. He doesn’t say it openly, but it occupies every place in Bashur. We are not against regional government. The region and the Kurdish people are going through a very important phase. Therefore, everyone should approach it responsibly. We should not remain silent against the plunder of the Turkish state. This is very important, this is our expectation.
Many patriotic people have been massacred in Sulaymaniyah. Have you talked to the authorities about this issue?
It is true, many of our people were massacred by the Turkish state in Sulaymaniyah. With these attacks, the Turkish state has proven once again that it is a terrorist. Our murdered friends were officially staying in Sulaymaniyah. In fact, Mamoste Şemal Başûrlu was a writer and a valuable intellectual. Again, Zeki Çelebi was a businessman, he had a business, he lived officially in Süleymaniye. Heval Yasin Bulut has been living there officially for 10 years and has been carrying out social work. Already valuable revolutionary Kurdish woman Nagihan Akarsel was a Jineology worker, an academic and a writer. They follow such civilian unarmed friends and martyr them with a despicable assassination. This is the Turkish state. In Bakur, 17 thousand of our people were killed with this method. He is both imprisoned, murdering in the city, using chemicals, as well as martyring our civilians at home and at work. We commemorate these martyrs with respect. We will undoubtedly raise the flags of resistance even higher. These murdered people are civilians, and the security forces there must defend these people. This is what we expect from the security forces in Bashur. Unarmed civilians arriving there should not be targeted by gangs and the Turkish state. They need to take action on this.
There is also: Why does the Turkish state carry out these assassinations, especially in Sulaymaniyah? Because he wants to weaken the Sulaymaniyah government. That’s why it targets civilians. So he wants to create confusion there. The enemy’s efforts must be in vain.
KURDISH IS A WILL ON THE POLITICAL STAGE
What are your thoughts on the upcoming elections in Turkey?
The primary project of the Turkish state is that the Kurds do not have willpower in Turkey. It is to put the Kurds under pressure so that they do not have the will militarily, politically and socially. He wants to Turkify. He sees himself as Turkish. For this reason, isolation has been imposed on Leader Apo for 7 years. The isolation has existed for 24 years, but for the last 7 years, it has been carrying out aggravated isolation on the basis of this concept. There are operational attacks based on extermination against the guerrilla. There is a fascist attack on Kurdish and Turkish democratic left political forces, on the basis of weakening and weakening all Kurdish and Kurdistani institutions. There is unlimited pressure on the people. All of these are aimed at preventing the Kurds from having a will and weakening them. But they did not succeed. Rêber Apo’s resistance in Imrali, guerrilla resistance, Kurdish politics,
Now the Kurds are the main will power in the elections, the Kurds are the key. Whoever he wants will be chosen. Right now, they all need the Kurds. This is an important success for the Kurdish freedom struggle. In other words, although they have attacked, killed, persecuted and imprisoned so many people for so many years, the Kurdish people, in the person of the political party HDP, are still a will on the political scene until now. These are all Kurds; It is an important result and a success for Bakur Kurds, for those outside Bakur as well.
What does the Turkish state’s attacks on you have to do with the elections?
The fascist AKP-MHP government, especially in the last 2 years, has been handling the attacks against us and all Kurds within the framework of the elections. So it has a lot to do with it. When they attacked Garê in 2021, they wanted to deal a big blow to us, to hold early elections on this basis. Not everything is government in Turkey; There is also the state. The state’s project is to annex the National Pact; It is to occupy from Aleppo to Kirkuk. The state has made this decision. AKP-MHP also acts within this framework, they want to implement this policy and especially at this moment they want to increase their attacks, to get votes from the people of Turkey by saying “I crushed the Kurds, I saved Turkey, I raised it” on the basis of opposition to the Kurds. He wants to get votes from them by raising racism in this way and to be successful in the elections in this way. It expects to achieve this for 2 years and to hold early elections. He did not get this opportunity.
THEY WILL DEFINITELY ATTACK ROJAVA
This year, they attacked Zap as of April. Creating a victory, success story around Zap; they wanted to go to early elections in this way, but they could not. They failed, so they turned to Rojava Kurdistan. They will definitely attack Rojava. According to the political conjuncture, they make bargains and calculations, but they want to go to the elections with a war against the Kurds. Erdogan knows well; If he goes to the election without a fight, he will not succeed. He will wage a war against the Kurds, he will say he succeeded. First, he made this calculation with Bashure Kurdistan, but it didn’t work; this time, he wants to make this calculation over Rojava Kurdistan and to hold elections in this way and to make his power permanent. This government wants to establish itself through the annihilation of the Kurds. Thus, he wants to dominate the New Ottoman politics. For this, his last attack is highly connected with the elections.
The government’s efforts to neutralize the HDP are increasing. Why do they want to neutralize HDP especially in this period?
One of the aims of the new project of the AKP-MHP government is to liquidate the HDP. To leave it under the dam and weaken it. As we have said, it is aimed at leaving the Kurds without their will. There are also democratic forces in the HDP; They are Kurdish friends, and they want to weaken them too. They have such purposes. They closed many Kurdish parties before, but the Kurds were establishing a new one. HDP is the last of these. If they shut down HDP, maybe they’ll install a new one. On the way to the elections, they filed a closure lawsuit against the HDP. AKP-MHP would have taken this into account; If they know that the HDP mass will disperse, they will legally close the HDP for sure, but even if they know that the mass will not disperse and re-emerge as a will, they may not. Erdogan is calculating this now. For this reason, he calculates whether it would be more beneficial to close HDP with the threat of closing it or not; They will make a decision accordingly. They will make a decision on this issue before the election, but there is a high probability of closure.
After the HPG action in Mersin, it was seen that there was a conflict between Selahattin Demirtaş and HPG. Is this a contradiction or a difference of opinion?
No, it is not a contradiction. There may be differences of opinion on some issues, but there is no contradiction. Selahattin Demirtaş is also a work of this struggle, a part of it. After all, that’s how he sees himself. So this community is very large; There may be diversity, but there will always be unity for the cause of freedom and democracy. I can state that there is no contradiction in this framework.
It is true; It wants to use both the invading Turkish state’s private war and other opposition forces, to show some differences of opinion as contradictions and deepen it. In this sense, there are efforts of both the government and the opposition, but they will not get any results in this regard. We know everyone. The Kurdish people will maintain their unity in this important period, ensure the unity of all institutions and organizations in Bakure Kurdistan, and will show their will and stand with the democratic and leftist sections of Turkey in this important period. No one can smash it and nothing like that will happen. Our people will show their weight and will in the elections on this basis.
THEY THREATEN THE LEADERSHIP
In the past, some news spread to the public that Erdoğan had a meeting with Mr. Öcalan. Is there any truth to this?
It is an important issue. There has been an isolation and a special war on Rêber Apo for 24 years. Now, for 21 months, no one has heard of Imrali or we do not know about Rêber Apo and his 3 friends. However, as you said, news comes out by the state or the government. We know that there are delegations that come and go. I do not know whether Erdogan is among them or not. Sometimes health delegations also come and go. Especially lastly, the so-called Committee for the Prevention of Torture of the Council of Europe went to Turkey and visited Imrali, but they had no plans to go to Imrali. They went to Imrali suddenly. “We talked,” they said. We will not make a statement now, we will make a statement after 6 months according to our procedures.” But later it became clear that they did not meet with Serok Apo. Or Serok Apo protested them; He didn’t want to meet them. They lied like this scandalous. It turned out to be so. In fact, we are very worried. We are concerned about Serok Apo’s health and Imrali’s condition, we are in fear. What is going on there? We know that there is pressure on the leadership. Psychological warfare already exists, but they apply pressure, they threaten. They want Rêber Apo to accept the solution of the Kurdish problem based on individual rights and to support them in the elections. If Rêber Apo accepts, they will declare, “We are solving the Kurdish problem on the basis of individual rights.” But Rêber Apo said, ‘no, we are a people; “We need social rights, not individual rights.” No, the right to education in Kurdish is required, the right to self-government is required. So we are a nation. Rêber Apo insists on this.
RÊBER APO SHOULD NOT BE ALONE
“I want to make a place in Turkey for the Kurds,” said Rêber Apo. A place can only be possible if the Turkish state recognizes the identity of the Kurdish community. That’s the point. In other words, Rêber Apo’s stance is for the existence of the Kurdish people. Resisting. Therefore, we know that he is under heavy and excessive pressure, and we are very worried. That’s why we have a call to all our people; Rêber Apo should not be left alone. We should go out on the street, ask his lawyers, his family to visit. We want to receive news like this. We have anxieties and fears.
In this context, you may have heard; There are protests in many places in Europe, in parts of Kurdistan, but our expectation is from the people of Bashure Kurdistan. Look, Rêber Apo is facing so much pressure for the rights of the Kurds. If Rêber Apo accepts what the Turkish state says, if we accept it as an organization, the Kurds will disappear. In other words, there is a national attitude, an attitude towards the existence of the Kurdish people. It is nothing out of the ordinary. Rêber Apo really has a heavy load on his shoulders. Our people should not remain silent against this. Until we hear from Rêber Apo… Now we must act for the physical freedom of Rêber Apo.
So, such a struggle is being waged today. The isolation imposed by the Turkish state, especially the AKP-MHP government, is unique in the world. In the world that has become a village, no one knows what happened in Imrali for 21 months. There is no news. This is great cruelty. This is such an isolation that it is torture. Everyone should speak up against it. In this context, there is a struggle between us and our people. We call on everyone to join this struggle to end the oppression in Imrali.
ATTRACTION IS NOT ON OUR AGENDA
Are you ready to start a unilateral ceasefire and a period of peace? If you are ready, how and when will this process begin?
Such a thing is not on our agenda. There are attacks against our people, our Leader, and our forces everywhere. So the ceasefire is not on our agenda now, but we want a political solution. This is our aim. If there is really a project and we see that there is seriousness in it, we can consider it. However, when there is an absolute and unprecedented isolation on our Leader, annihilation attacks on the guerrilla, a fascist pressure on our people and politics, and there is no solution-oriented project, it is out of question to even discuss or bring this up. But as we said, if there is a real project, all these pressures, isolation and normalization, we can think about it and put it on our agenda. We welcome that. But for this, terms and conditions need to be established. Conditions are what we say.
We are waging a political struggle. We are not the ones who want to settle the issue with weapons and violence, it is the Turkish state. They broke the ceasefire, stopped the solution and dialogue project and attacked us. If they stop these attacks, if the project comes to light, the ceasefire phase may come up again. But such a thing is not on the agenda at the moment.
Finally, I would like to thank all KNN employees and managers for providing us with this opportunity. Through you, I offer my greetings and respects to all the saintly people of Bashurê Kurdistan, and I sincerely wish you all success.
