We can speak in general about the situation of women or the Women’s Revolution going on in Rojava.
Zi: In general sense we can say that in the conditions of the history and social conditions of the Middle East, the Kurdish Freedom Movement, Kurdish Women’s Movement, aims to create a sense of freedom for women. It’s very important. For example yesterday the women in Şengal made a declaration about the last attacks of the Iraqi Government on Şengal. One of the sentences in this statement was: “Once, we got the taste of freedom. We will not give it up”. This is the main success of the Women’s Revolution, which is not complete but an ongoing process. In this sense it [would] be very optimistic to say that [the] women’s revolution or the ideas of women’s freedom encompasses, or [has] already changed, the life of every woman. Maybe that would be very optimistic. But, we can say that in society, there is a new way, this hope that there can be another way of living. Another sense of living, another sense of being women, being women and being self-conscious and self-confident together. In this sense I think in general, in these last 10 years of revolution, and before the start of the revolution, it [has created] this sense and hope. It creates this alternative for women, and for young women also. So in this sense we can say [that] it’s very important that [the] institutions of Revolution are already being [built with] this sense. There is no place in Rojava that dismisses women [or] the participation of women. So every institution and every structure has to, and already is, addressing the participation of women. How women can participate strongly and meaningfully. Not just as a shape, as a physical being, but how we can change the spirit of organization. In this sense, in every area, there’s struggle.
On the other hand also, there is an ongoing struggle within this revolution also. Because nobody gives us rights or our freedom. We have to fight for our freedom, we have to fight for our right to live a life in dignity, in honor, in freedom. In this sense for example, there is a big struggle in the fight against this old patriarchal mentality which has this strong tendency to dismiss women…or put obstacles in their works. In these terms there’s an ongoing struggle and we see that women are conscious about this. Now with the revolution, we have some opportunities, women have more opportunities. In order to change these opportunities [and transform them into] freedom [for] society and more freedom [for] women, we have to fight and work more, think more. And, you have to push for [developing] projects which are talking to the social structure of society here. Not [top] down, but from the grassroots. In terms of mentality, in terms of emotions, these ideas and experiences are coming from the grassroots. And, the outcomes we’ve derived from the experience until now are important in this sense.
In these last years for example, we see there is an ongoing quarrel. Friends, hevals, are saying “Azadîya Jin, (women’s freedom) is important” but there are people in society saying “women understand freedom in the wrong way.”. This is a kind of attack of the patriarchal or statist mentality [against] the struggle of women to be free, or to create this emancipation for themselves. In past years for example in this sense, we saw some attacks on Mala Jin (Women’s House) structures with the claim that they are deepening the clashes between men and women and making families split. Denouncing the women structures, the women’s autonomous structures. But then with the resistance and persistence of women working there, working in Kongra Star, in Adaleta Jin-the women’s justice system-and so on. The society is also understanding, getting the feeling that we need these autonomous women’s structures to protect some of the gains and successes of the revolution and to bring women to think in a more broader sense than just in a schematic sense. To really feel in the structure with “brio”, with energy. In the structures where we feel this energy of women, we see that structures and the autonomous mechanisms, the equal representation, the pîvanên hevjiyana azad (standards of free communal life) is working out. The struggle against the male mentality is working. But in the structures and institutions where this energy becomes weaker, or the women in these structures gave up, we see different problems arose. But, in a nutshell we can say that democratic confederalism is not a model that you can build once and then say “now it’s working and it will work [until] the end”. We need to know that democratic confederalism is a system in which every day you have to fight to fulfill it with the spirit of freedom and democracy. With this radical sense of changing. With the question of how to live, how to love, how to feel, and how to organize your life and in this sense. As I said, now because we are in the harsh war conditions, we cannot say that everybody, every women is within this spirit, tasting this freedom. At least we can say we have lots of models, role models, now for women. And also, models for all the women’s struggles around the world in terms of organizing themselves, or ourselves, organizing our lives individually.
Maybe we can basically say this and that autonomous women’s structures are the [foundation] of this revolution and the system in Rojava. Without them we cannot think about this revolution, actually. You can really feel this, see this, when you compare the territories [that] are in the Autonomous Administration of North and East Syria and the territories that have been conquered by Turkey and Turkish backed çetes (gangs) let’s say. Just in this sense check the website and videos of [the] so-called Afrin Council and when you see them and you watch how they commercialize or publish their works, you see [that the] participation of women changed. [It’s] full of men, but the problem is not that it’s physically full of men, the problem that it’s also full of male mentality. When you compare these videos or this situation now with the situation before the conquering, before the dagirkirî (occupation), you see the differences of [the] women’s structure and [the] sense of women’s revolution in Rojava.
Do you think that more internationalist should come to Rojava, should come to the Institute? We briefly mentioned the works before, but what kind of impact or experience do you think they could have?
Collective: More dedicated and open people should come. People who are open to learning and giving their time and energy should come. That would help increase our capacity to do the type of research and work with the community that we do.
V: We were talking about how most of us come as individuals, but it is also possible that people come in groups. Then [when] they go back they can work together with all this common knowledge. We also deal a lot with the internal dynamics and collective life here. If it is a group that is here together experiencing it, I think it will be very meaningful.
Collective: Groups can come here to learn about Jineolojî here and the revolution, [and] to share their experiences here. People coming here should be open to and interested in developing their revolutionary analysis and their own personality analysis about themselves, about their choices, the work they do, and why they do it. And if more people come, especially in groups, we can do longer educations and different projects for longer periods of time which deepens the work for everybody.
A: To add something about how to come or how to get organized in Europe and other parts of the world, [we must] connect Jineolojî [and] the science of women to different local societies. We [are] also [creating] Jineolojî committees in different places now. It’s good for the friends who are working in European committees to also come and join the revolution to see how the women’s revolution is in practice and bring these analyses back. To have this bridge between different committees. What we do as internationalists is also to support, to gather [and] collect knowledge about different struggles around world. [For] different revolutionary women [to]come together, organize themselves, and also continue this fight. Because we see that [in the nation-states] this fight maybe happens for a time, but it ends when you reach something. It’s also the strategy of the state to give a bit of freedom and then let them do this work so they can cover [some] small thing, but they will never reach total freedom because the state will always exist. So [we aim] to connect more friends with Jineolojî, to connect this knowledge which is needed to continue struggling for a long time, to have this long view of how to overcome patriarchy. Because if we want to do this, we cannot start in one part and make a difference only in one place. We really have to connect the struggle to everywhere. This is something good now, to build up the Jineolojî committees all around the world, to have this exchange. So people already working in Jineolojî groups can come here or women who go back can create new Jineolojî committees where they are so that it [becomes] a more common struggle. Not this [giving] up so fast because you feel that you cannot continue. I think this is really important to see that Jineolojî in the last five, six years is really growing and people are really interested in it because people think that it can really make a change. Because when you are fighting, you also need the knowledge. You are fighting for freedom but [you must also gain freedom as a result of acquiring this knowledge as well as] the hope [which comes] out of it-that you can continue struggling and bring it to different places.
Zi: People can come not just to be part of the ongoing projects or works here, or to see revolution, but also people are welcome to propose their projects or propose their ideas for example also. If they can be contextualized for here, [and] if we have [the] capacity to do them together, then they are very welcome. So, we have many women around the world who have different capacities, who have different experiences. It would be really nice to also share the our potentials. Not just in terms of this ideological political sharing, but also sharing of a different kind. There are millions of ways of sharing. So also this is a way for people or women to come with specific proposals or projects.
We can talk about other Jineolojî works: Andrea Wolf Institutes works under the umbrella of the Jineolojî academy [which] has many works and different structures, around the world, in Rojava and in other places of Kurdistan also.
A: What is important to see [is] that Jineolojî works are connecting [different] women’s struggles but also educate women so they can see they have the resources [within] themselves to create something new out of this knowledge which is actually there, to renew it or open it up. That’s why the Jineolojî academy has a lot of institutes or places where works are being done. What is important is the research centers in different places like Dêrik, Kobanê, Hesekê, Tabqa, Manbij, Afrin, like Şehba now, Aleppo….These are important places. These are the first places really opened and women [are] coming there to be members of the research centers to create this knowledge. And, they make different research for different issues. For example now in Hesekê they started to research religion. In Dêrik they…had story telling with children from the schools. They are coming there and they get to know through oral stories their own story, their own history. They educate. There’s an academy where people also get trained in how to be a teacher or give seminars in different topics. What is [an] important topic is “Killing the Dominant Male”. To also educate people in society, to make some seminars for special days, especially the 25h of November, the International Day Against Violence Against Women.
Men’s workshops too. Actually it’s for the whole society, males are coming and also women are coming. This is what women bring back to their family, to make the change, to start in the small collective of people you are living with. Also already mentioned [is the] university where [they] have the department of Jineolojî…It’s really continuing and many women want to go there to be educated at the university in the Department of Jineolojî. In the last years this has really [grown]. There is also JIN TV where they have one program about Jineolojî.
Zi: The Commune of Publication is besides these academic works and practical works. The Komîn (commune) of Publication also makes TV programs, for JIN TV, and other television programs and publications and special dossiers. They are based in Jinwar.
A: Jinwar is an important part of the Jineolojî academy. It’s bringing all this experience into a practical life. Bringing these women together where they can experience how they can educate themselves, share their knowledge with each other, educate their children there is a school, also a bakery there is [the] Şifa Jin-Tendurestî Health Center where they try to gather the knowledge from this natural healing medicine [where they] continue these works. Then there is the ecological part where the women try to produce their own food. And all of these works are building the spirit in Jinwar to stay together and work together in these ways. To also show that it’s possible, that it’s really a way for people to be inspired. Jineolojî is not just a theory or something that just exists in the academic space and stays there; it goes back to society. So society learns about this knowledge and can use it to govern themselves, to become free, to organize themselves. They have the village council. They have the history, Jineolojî was created to bring it back to the society to build up this free life.
[The] Jineolojî Academy also made a big sociological research [project] about the life of women before the revolution and now. Groups of women went one by one to the different families to the houses, to the different villages, in the different regions, in the different cantons and they talked with the women to collect [information], to collect their experiences, stories and reflections and make a social analysis. They produced this really nice book it’s now in Kurdish, but hopefully it will also be translated in other languages. In these talks some women said for example that technique changed a lot, too. Before it was a lot of giving knowledge through discussions and oral stories, but then afterwards it changed a lot through technical [tools]. This is something which can bring awareness of how it’s important not to separate [them], but to bring [them] more together.
Of course, there are the Jineolojî works around the Middle East in total. There were conferences [where it has been decided] to create more places where they can research or where they can make more of these social analyses. It’s important for people in Europe also to know immigrant peoples and immigrant communities, how they live, how they can still connect with their culture and not be just assimilated, be connected to the language, connected to the culture, and so on. I think this is really something Jineolojî can make, more than just a bridge, but really a network where everywhere women can join and research their situation and find the truth of how they can live together. So that’s why we also build up Jineolojî centers in Europe where we try to collect these different works to bring it together. To also produce books or brochures and bring the knowledge in a way you can share it, to bring it to educational seminars also. [There are] different committees also…I think we have more than 13 committees in different countries in Europe. So [for] women in Europe who want to make a connection with Jineolojî works or try to help grow the ideas Jineolojî, there are many possibilities.
Zi: Now, in these last years, we are trying to open up works in South America and North America also. We have connections and do conferences, seminars, in person talks and discussions. North Africa also. we try to strengthen these ties and also build up committees and commonalities between here, the Middle East, and these places. Also Russia, in Russia there are works done around Jineolojî and I think in Armenia as well. Women in some places for example, without any of our information or any of connection to us, women build up structures, reading groups, and discussion groups about Jineolojî, this is exciting. In Bakûrê Kurdistan (North Kurdistan) and Başurê Kurdistan (South Kurdistan) there are also Jineolojî works. For example in Bakurê Kurdistan, we have a women’s academy, publication house, and also a magazine called Jineolojî magazine. It comes out every 3 months. In Başurê Kurdistan we also have women centers there [as well as] research areas. What Jineolojî focuses on also is gathering information or knowledge, women’s knowledge, and analyzing it. [Jineolojî] is also [focused on] building institutions [so] that we can protect or institutionalize this way of thinking-this way of getting knowledge and sharing mechanisms-because the system that we are against, or we are living under, is very organized. So, against this we have to be organized more strongly than the system we are fighting against or fighting in. For example in Başurê Kurdistan we have [recently established] the women’s archive library and research center. I think it is the first in Kurdish context, the first for Kurdish women, actually. And Jineolojî is of as much of an important project [as] Jinwar. And, many other women outside Jineolojî also participate with this project. For example Jinwar is not just a Jineolojî project it’s a collective project [with] Kongra Star and other institutions. But, the pioneer of the idea was Jineolojî.
A: Jineolojî youth is working also making Jineolojî camps for young women from here, the Self-Administration, they call the camps Xwebûn, like “being and becoming yourself”. Also to bring young women together [so] that they can discuss, educate, and learn. Especially [so that they can] also learn things which are maybe not [shown] to young women like driving a car, riding a bicycle, or swimming courses, so they [can] also see these things. Or, self-defense in a physical way. They do it seasonally and something that’s also really important [is] to organize the young women [and] let them come out of the family-to let them see something else [and] to organize their life together for this time of the camp. Also they do a lot of work in the newly liberated areas like in Tabqa, Manbij, [and] Raqqa. I think it’s important to mention that for the young Arabic women, for them it’s really important to connect now, after this time living under the Daesh system, to see how they can develop themselves: how they can also go out of the house to get to know other young women, [how they] have more options for what they want to do, to find their way of how they can join the different works or [see] what is existing, to get to know themselves. This is also what the Jineolojî works do.
N: Jineolojî as a term is maybe something that can be strange to people. But actually, what Jineolojî does is kind of bring us to our roots. And I think that’s something important and then you see that everywhere in the world actually that women have tried to connect to these roots. Like researching their own history, the unwritten history, like all these traces or sources of resistance that give us a lot of strength for the present day. And I think this is something that is immensely important and I think Jineolojî gives us a common framework or common language also to connect these experiences. To deepen them and develop them in a way that is also connected to a certain ethical understanding of why we are looking at this because we are actually [struggling] for a free society. I think this is why Jineolojî is so attractive to many people, to many women, because it makes this connection.
