BEHDINAN – In the second part of the interview he gave to ANF, KCK Executive Council Co-Chair Cemil Bayık talked about the negotiations made over the Kurds at the NATO summit in Madrid, Spain, the invasion threat against Rojava, the pressures of the AKP-MHP government in Turkey and Kurdistan, and Iraq and Başür. evaluated the current political crisis.
Bayık said that the Turkish state was stuck in the Medya Defense Zones, and therefore, seeing the Russia-Ukraine war as an opportunity, turned its direction towards Rojava and emphasized that the people of Rojava should take precautions against the attacks. Noting that the true face of the USA and NATO was revealed once again at the meeting in Madrid, Bayık said that after NATO, the USA and Europe accepted the genocidal policy of the Turkish state, they increased the attacks of the Turkish state even more.
Pointing out that the Turkish state has taken Iraq, Başûr and Barzani hostage, Bayık said, “The Turkish state wants to realize the dreams of the new Ottomans in line with the National Pact on this basis. We want to further enlarge the existing fragmentation in Iraq and send Başûr to Turkey. “Both Bashur and the people of the Middle East should know well the politics of Erdogan-Bahceli. They know well what the Ottomans did in history. If they do not want to experience the same situation again, they should react to the Turkish state and the cooperation of the KDP,” he said.
The second part of the interview given by KCK Executive Council Co-chair Cemil Bayık to ANF is as follows:
The Turkish state has increased its threats against Rojava and Northern and Eastern Syria. It is known that the Turkish state wants to completely occupy Rojava and Syria. Why did the Turkish state increase its threats in such a process? Does it have anything to do with international developments?
The Turkish state and the AKP-MHP fascist regime are the enemies of the Kurdish people. They want to massacre the Kurds. Their policy is based on this. They made Rojava a target. He openly says that he will enter Rojava and occupy other areas. They will invade. The reason why they haven’t done so until now is because they continue their negotiations. Our people living in Northern and Eastern Syria should not forget this fact; The Turkish state is not only against the Kurds, it is against all the peoples of Syria, democracy and freedom. They are against anyone who does not serve them. Therefore, the people of Northern and Eastern Syria should see this reality well and should not deceive themselves. They should not be comfortable, let them believe in themselves, organize, prepare themselves for the Revolutionary People’s War. When the Turkish state takes a new step for the invasion, it should stand against it,
The Turkish state wants to remove the Kurds from all parts of Rojava and settle their gangs and their families. They’re changing the demographics. It is also developing this in Afrin, Serêkaniyê and Girê Spî. They want to occupy many areas and then add those regions to Turkey, such as Hatay, with political moves. They use their gangs for this too. They brought Al Nusra to Afrin for this. They prepared themselves to invade and attack new places. They are negotiating this, they will attack as a result. That’s why our people should never believe in external forces. He must believe in his own strength and prepare himself for a great war. I guess some results have been achieved in Afrin, Serêkaniyê and Girê Spî. If the invading Turkish state entered there and changed the demographic, one of the reasons is foreign countries, the second, There are some deficiencies and mistakes experienced there. I guess that lessons have been learned from these shortcomings and mistakes.
I believe that if the Turkish state carries out invasion attacks once again, the practices experienced in Afrin, Serêkaniyê and Girê Spî will not be repeated. Because our people understood very well what it is like to leave their villages, lands, homes and countries. Our people will never accept slavery. Therefore, it will prepare itself for the Revolutionary People’s War in every way, together with its military strength. If our people fight together with their military power and resist, the Turkish state and its mercenaries will not get any results. Our people may have some difficulties, but they will win in the end. The Turkish state targeted the Medya Defense Zones in 2022 and wanted to liquidate the guerrilla. But when the Russia-Ukraine war started, the Turkish state saw this as an opportunity for itself. It looked like Media Defense Areas’ No matter how hard he fights, he can’t get results, he is getting more and more blows from the guerrilla, so he saw the Russia-Ukraine war as an opportunity and turned his direction towards Rojava. It is currently negotiating to invade Rojava.
What attitude should the people of Rojava and the Northern and Eastern Syrian forces display against the invasion threats of the Turkish state?
If our people, together with their military power, prepare themselves against attacks, the Turkish state cannot achieve results. In fact, if war coordination and war tactics develop correctly, they can bring the end of AKP-MHP. Our people should aim for this. This is a big goal and they will produce big results. The Turkish state is a member state of NATO. When the Russia-Ukraine war started, when it took new steps towards Rojava, NATO calculated that it would not stand against the USA and Europe. He even calculated that they would turn a blind eye and help. Again, after NATO, the USA and Europe formed a front against Russia, he saw that Russia was very stuck and wanted to take advantage of it. The AKP-MHP government saw that these forces needed Turkey at certain points. As a result, they wanted to have some of their demands accepted by blackmail.
It should strengthen the unity of our people with all peoples in Northern and Eastern Syria. Together they must stand against the occupation. They must complete their war preparations together. Because the Turkish state will use planes, tanks and artillery. Our people should build shelters so that the bombardments do not harm them. They must take precautions for war. For example, they cut off the water of our people. If there is a war, it is more likely to happen. That’s why they should take precautions. They should take precautions for basic materials such as food and medicine. They should be educated and organized in villages and houses on the basis of self-defense. They must prepare themselves completely for war. They should support their military forces. If our people prepare for war in this way, they can defeat the Turkish state and its mercenaries. They can achieve great success.
Recently, the pressure of AKP-MHP fascism on democratic institutions and the Kurdish people has increased even more. Free press institutions were raided and many Kurdish journalists were arrested. Again, they attacked the villages in Van and Hakkari and tortured the people. How do you evaluate these attacks? Why did AKP-MHP fascism increase violence and oppression so much in this process?
The AKP-MHP government has weakened and is afraid of falling from power. They are putting so much pressure and persecuting them in order not to fall from power. This is how they try to stand. They want to free themselves from the courts and perpetuate their fascist system. There was nothing left for them to do except persecution. If they do not persecute, massacre, arrest, insult, torture and lynch, they will not be able to maintain their power. With these methods, they aim to intimidate and take over all the peoples who are against them. They carry out the same cruelty in dungeons. They arrest and torture many people for no reason. They want to break their will and surrender. They slaughter those who do not surrender; They say he either died of illness or committed suicide. They don’t even let their families see their bodies. Because they don’t want their torture to be exposed. Some of those who do not surrender do not let go even though their punishments are over, they give new punishments. In this way, they want to take the dungeons. They aim to scare the outsiders in this way and prevent them from participating in the protests.
The Turkish state is releasing the murderers who murdered the Kurdish people, especially our patriotic people, in the courts. What does this mean? In other words, he says to the killers, ‘All those you killed were Kurds, socialists, democrats, well done’. This is how they encourage those who want to massacre the Kurdish people. They are running such a dirty policy. They trample on all human values. They have turned Kurdistan and Turkey into torture chambers. They openly torture not only in the dungeons, but also in the streets, in the neighborhoods, everywhere. They are doing such cruelty.
They have turned Turkey and Kurdistan into a dungeon, they do not even allow anyone to breathe. They ban all artists, they arrested many journalists, and they are still arresting them. They enacted a new press law. They don’t want anyone to see or write about the torture and war they have done. They want to deceive everyone like this. There are journalists who write the truth. No matter how much the AKP-MHP government and the state want to hide the facts, this is not possible. They want to silence journalists because the free press reveals the truth. In this way, they want to silence everyone and maintain their power. But they will not succeed, they cannot silence the journalists and the public. Their rule has come to an end.
How do you evaluate the political developments in Southern Kurdistan and Iraq? Elections were held in Iraq, but the government was still not formed. The Sadr movement, which had the most deputies in the election, withdrew from the parliament. There is a political crisis in Iraq, why can’t a solution be found to this crisis? What do you think is the solution?
There are reasons for the deepening of the crises in Iraq day by day. Because there is no democratic mentality and approach. If democracy does not develop in a place, there will always be problems. If the problems in Iraq are not resolved, if the crisis is getting deeper, it is because there is no democracy. In Iraq, the nation-state is based. If the nation state is taken as a basis in a place like Iraq, the problems will not be solved. The nation-state mentality needs to change. They need to develop a democratic system. Then the problems are solved. In the election, the people clearly showed this demand. Most of the people did not go to the polls. They have no faith in elections or parties. The people want a democratic system, a democratic nation. Therefore, they did not participate in the election. Everyone involved in politics in Iraq should see this reality and make a change.
Another reason for the growing problems in Iraq is foreign states. Foreign countries play a large role in Iraqi politics. They do not think about Iraq, the Iraqi peoples, they conduct politics according to their interests. They develop disintegration and hostility in society. If the crisis is growing, this is one of the reasons. Again, one of the states that deepened these crises both in Iraq and Bashur is the Turkish state. With the support of the KDP, they are trying to achieve their goals in Bashur and Iraq. They deepen the problems both in Bashur and Iraq. It also appeared in the press; It was announced that MIT was organized in Kirkuk and other areas. This is real. The Turkish state has established military bases in many places. It is increasing its occupation of Bashur with each passing day. With the help of MIT Parastin, it works in places like Mosul, Kirkuk, and even in Baghdad.
Turkey has taken Iraq, Bashur and Barzani hostage. On this basis, it wants to realize the new Ottoman dreams in line with the aims of the National Pact. There is great danger. It aims to further enlarge the existing fragmentation in Iraq and to make Bashur a province of Turkey. Both Bashur and Middle East peoples should know the politics of Erdogan-Bahceli. They know very well what the Ottomans did in history. If they do not want to experience the same things again, they should stand against the Turkish state and react to the cooperation of the KDP. If they do so, the Turkish state cannot take Iraq hostage in this way.
After the Russia-Ukraine war, relations between NATO powers got stronger and NATO’s involvement came to the fore again. In the last meeting held in Madrid, China was considered a threat for the first time along with Russia. The Chinese Foreign Ministry described this situation as a return to the cold war era. What kind of picture do you think awaits the world in the future?
The capitalist system of modernity is experiencing a crisis and wants to get out of this crisis. World War 3 is happening because of this. Its center is the Middle East and Kurdistan. He wants to solve the crisis he is experiencing in this war. The development of the Russia-Ukraine war is also the result of this. In other words, the crisis of capitalist modernity spawned this war. Because Russia is in the system of capitalist modernity. However, it has not fully cooperated with global capital. This situation creates some problems for global capital. They want to include Russia completely in the global capital. That’s why the USA and NATO are going after Russia. They want to weaken Russia and force it upon themselves. Of course, this is not their only goal. They want to get ahead of China too. Because China has taken many steps economically and technically. USA and the capitalist system in China They see the development of the country as a danger to themselves and their interests. They want to get ahead of this.
China is also in the capitalist system, but there are some contradictions between them. Everyone wants to take part in the system according to their power. Some do not like their place in the system, they want to have a stronger place. Britain and the USA, which pioneered the capitalist modernity system, see it as dangerous for themselves. They want to prevent this. They aim to design the system with the 3rd World War. But the problems experienced in the system of capitalist modernity cannot be solved so easily. As they try to solve problems, they create new problems. China says it’s back to the cold war era, that’s not true.
Both China and Russia are in the capitalist system, their ideologies and philosophies are the same. Therefore, a war like the cold war in the past will not develop. The main contradiction between them is their place in the capitalist system. As long as the capitalist system exists, these contradictions will continue. The real contradiction is between capitalist modernity and democratic modernity. In other words, it is between the peoples and capitalist modernity. This is the truth. We cannot say anything about the outcome, but Rêber Apo says in his defense that there will be a compromise between capitalist modernity and democratic modernity for a period of time. There is obviously such a possibility.
The Turkish state wants to turn the war against the Kurdish people into an opportunity. At the meeting in Madrid, he made a condition for Sweden and Finland to join NATO and asked for support in the war against the Kurds. How do you evaluate this situation and its consequences? Why is NATO supporting the Turkish state in the war against the Kurds? What kind of policy should the Kurdish people follow against this?
NATO has been helping the Turkish state since the establishment of our movement. The reason why the Turkish state is a member of NATO and wants to join the EU is the establishment of a Turkish state. It was aimed at the elimination of other peoples, languages. They would only leave the Turkish language, the Turkish nation, the Turkish state, the Turkish flag. For this, they committed many massacres. This is the aim of their policy against the Kurds. The Turkish state is committing massacres, making peoples genocide, but no one is making a sound. Again, they use chemical weapons, tactical nuclear weapons, and different bombs against the guerrilla, and no one speaks. It enlarges the occupation, it commits massacres, it changes the demographics, and nobody speaks. Because it is a NATO country. The Turkish state is doing all this with the help of NATO. If NATO had not accepted it, the Turkish state would not have the power to do these things.
When the movement was first established, they murdered Olof Palme and blamed the PKK. Olof Palme was a friend of the Kurds and the oppressed peoples. Olof Palme wanted to get in touch with the PKK and the Kurds and to help. Because they saw this, they got ahead of it. They both killed Olof Palme and put the blame on the PKK. With such a conspiracy, they put the PKK on the ‘terrorist’ list. The Turkish state takes advantage of this and says, ‘I can almost kill the PKK, this is my right’. NATO and foreign states have prepared this ground. When they realized that our movement was developing and that it had brought the Kurdish people back from the dead, they saw that it was a threat to them. Because capitalist modernity had raised the Kurdish problem. Those who built Kurdistan piecemeal, adopted the policy of annihilation against the Kurds, accepted the Turkish state in Lausanne,
Despite all that they did, our movement still flourished and gave hope to the peoples. Right now, they see the spread of Rêber Apo’s ideas, his paradigm. This is dangerous for them. That’s why they want to develop a new conspiracy. In Madrid, they took new decisions regarding our movement, the Kurdish people, and Rojava. Erdogan openly said, ‘Everyone should accept my policy, I would accept the NATO membership of Sweden and Finland, otherwise I would not’. Madrid agreed that Sweden and Finland would join NATO. What does this mean? This means that they accepted Erdogan’s policy against the PKK and the Kurdish people. Erdogan’s policy against the PKK is liquidation, his policy against the Kurdish people is genocide, and his policy against the peoples of the region is the new Ottoman Empire.
USA AND NATO CONFIRM THE TURKISH STATE’S INVASION OF ROJAVA
This meeting once again revealed the true face of the USA and NATO. They said that they were against the occupation in the Russia-Ukraine war and that they were on the side of the Ukrainian people. They wanted to clean their dirty faces in this way. They also got some results. The peoples who were against the war thought that the USA and NATO were on their side. But at the Madrid meeting, their true face was revealed. It has been revealed how hypocritical they are, how much they think about their interests, how they deceive the people.
The Turkish state is committing massacres, making the Kurdish people genocide. The Kurdish people do not pose a threat to the Turkish state, on the contrary, the Turkish state is a threat to the Kurdish people. He wants to eliminate the Kurdish people. He wants to eliminate everything in the name of Kurds and Kurdistan. It is not the Turkish state that must be defended, but the Kurdish people. Capitalist modernity supports the Turkish state’s policy of genocide. Our people should see this very well. They did not accept the Turkish state’s request to include Rojava on the ‘terrorist’ list, but with the decisions taken at the meeting, the Turkish state’s request was fulfilled.
NO ONE CAN TAKE THE KURDISH PEOPLE, RÊBER APO AND THE PKK
The Turkish state is making massacres in Rojava every day, killing the people. Isn’t that an invasion? This means that the decisions they have taken regarding Rojava are not in Rojava’s favour. The statements ‘We are friends of Rojava, we are defending Rojava’ are not true. No such thing. They approve of the Turkish state’s decision to invade. That’s why our people, especially our people in Rojava, should see the true face of NATO, the USA and Europe. After NATO, USA and Europe accepted the genocidal policy of the Turkish state, the Turkish state increased its attacks even more. It increased its attacks and massacres against both Rojava, Bashur and the guerrilla. Democrats, journalists and artists ban, arrest and torture everyone in Turkey. It means that the Turkish state made their demands accepted.
Everyone knows the AKP, the Turkish state’s relationship with DAESH. NATO, the USA and Europe also know, but they turn a blind eye because of their interests. They act like they don’t know. They were saying that we are supposedly against ISIS. Rojava, the Kurdish people and HPG guerrillas waged a great struggle against ISIS and gave thousands of martyrs. They saved humanity from the danger of ISIS. So how do these forces oppose ISIS, how are they friends with the Kurds? These are all lies. If they were really against ISIS, who fought against ISIS, who paid a heavy price, who defended humanity, this is clear, the Kurds, the YPG and the PKK. They should have respected that. But aside from showing respect, they see and accept the Turkish state’s policy of genocide as correct.
Our people see this. No one can deceive the Kurdish people anymore. No one can conduct politics or profit from the massacres against the Kurdish people. That era has passed, the Kurdish people are now conscious. That’s why no one can take over the Kurdish people, Rêber Apo, or the PKK. No matter what the Turkish state does, whatever their internal and external collaborators do, they cannot save the Turkish state, they cannot finish off the Kurds, they cannot take the PKK, Rêber Apo. Let them quit now. Let them respect the Kurdish people. They owe the Kurdish people, they have to pay this debt. They should approach Rêber Apo and the PKK. This is what we want from them.
